Zašto je Srbija tu gde jeste?!

[dragvorl]

Veliko je pitanje da li uopste imaju pravo da gone nekog na osnovu toga da li zna jezik. Pre ce tu biti problem u njihovim organima koji su dozvoljavali dobijanje drzavljanstva na razne, da ne kazem pravu rec nacine. Kad se jednom dobije mislim da je vrlo problematicno nekom oduzeti isto.

[DukeNS]

Bas iz tog razloga i priupitah...


Dag, zasto ti je drago?

[fq400]

Hmm, velika je razlika između oduzimanja pasoša i oduzimanja državljanstva, s tim što ni ne znam da li je oduzimanje državljanstva uopšte moguće...? Šta ako se neko u međuvremenu od uzimanja mađarskog državljanstva odrekao originalnog? Koliko znam čovek ne može biti bez državljanstva, odnosno to je administrativno veoma teško postići.

[Vladapetr]

Poznavanje jezika mogu da postave kao uslov za državljanstvo. Ujaka su mi u Francuskoj urnisali sa tim, živeo je godinama u Švajcarskoj (Bazel) a onda samo prešao preko reke u Fr (Miluz) i tu igrao i trenirao nekih 10-ak godina. Cimali su ga za državljanstvo samo tako, iako ima sve preduslove vraćali ga sve dok nije izbacio švapski naglasak.

Amerikanci imaju jaku kontrolu čak i nakon dobijanja državljanstva, gomila filmova se bavi tom problematikom. Mislim da je dovoljno da neko uputi zvaničnu sumnju i onda ideš na proveru.

[Grujic]

Jedno je da jezik bude uslov za dobijanje, a drugo da po tom osnovu oduzmu vec steceno

[dag81]

Bas iz tog razloga i priupitah...


Dag, zasto ti je drago?

Zato sto mi nije drago da pola severne Srbije ima papire susedne drzave.

[Floyd]

Mađari su napravili glup zakon koji će im se sigurno obiti o glavu. Razumeo bih da su ljudima sa mađarskim poreklom dozvolili da se nasele u Mađarskoj pa posle X godina boravka i rada, po nekoj ubrzanoj proceduri, dobiju i državljanstvo. Ovo je neozbiljno a oduzimanje pasoša na granici još neozbiljnije.

Ja sam napisao da u boljoj auto kompaniji u razvoju imaju oko 3ke pocetnu, ali su u razvoju placenije pozicije nego recimo QA. I ja sto sam cuo, jer se interesujem, da su pocetne za masince 2k. E od toga po trenutnim cenama recimo u Minhenu ce se tesko otplatiti stan u nekom normalnom periodu. 2ke mi ne zvuci bas preterano puno ruku na srce. Verujem doduse da za opterecenja plate dobijem bolju uslugu nego u Srbiji gde za 65% od od neto sto im ostavimo firma i ja dobijem kikiriki.

Plate i troškovi života u Minhenu su jedno a npr. u Drezdenu drugo. Kad kažeš Nemačka pa automatski navodiš cene u Minhenu je isto kao kad bih ja uzeo prosek za Srbiju pa kažem da je inženjerska plata 300 evra (ili koliko već) a iznamljivanje dvosobnog stana u BG 250e

Ne postoji ta matematika koja će da pokaže kako je bolje živeti i raditi u Srbiji

[fq400]

Zato sto mi nije drago da pola severne Srbije ima papire susedne drzave.

Bilo bi ok da je u pitanju, ne znam, centralna, istočna ili zapadna Srbija? Imati duplo državljanstvo je veoma praktično, a i da se ne lažemo daje dodatnu sigurnost svuda, a posebno u Srbiji ukoliko je drugo državljanstvo neke iole normalne države što Mađarska jeste, ako ni zbog čega drugog, onda zbog EU.

Nije me mrzelo da nađem na netu, mađarsko državljanstvo naturalizovanim građanima zaista može biti oduzeto u prvih deset godina. Pod ovom prvom tačkom može bilo šta da se napakuje, tako da je sasvim realan scenario oduzimanja (kao što je laganje o poznavanju jezika).

Revocation of Hungarian Citizenship
Section 9

1. Hungarian citizenship may be revoked if it was obtained through unlawful means, in particular, by the recipient's conduct aimed at misleading the authorities by disclosing false or untrue data, or by concealing any consequential data or information. Hungarian citizenship may not be revoked after ten years from the date it was awarded.

2. The Minister of the Interior shall establish the existence of a fact giving rise to the revocation of citizenship in a decision. The Metropolitan Court may be requested to review the decision.

3. The President of the Republic shall decide on the termination of Hungarian citizenship through revocation, based upon the recommendation of the Minister of the Interior.

4. The decision concerning the revocation of Hungarian citizenship shall be published in the Hungarian Gazette (Magyar Közlöny). Hungarian citizenship shall terminate on the day of the publication of the decision.

[Vladapetr]

Jedno je da jezik bude uslov za dobijanje, a drugo da po tom osnovu oduzmu vec steceno

Neće zbog jezika oduzimati pasoš (državljanstvo), nego će neznanje jezika biti povod za sumnju, tj. prijavu i proveru. Ako u USA to što ne fircaš svoju navodnu ženu ili ne znaš gde je završila fax može da bude povod za proveru pa oduzimanje pasoša (državljanstva), za neznanje jezika im je prazan go.

[fq400]

Teško da će zbog toga vlada US nekome oduzeti državljanstvo. Ovo su razlozi zbog kojih se može ostati bez državljanstva u USA (odnosi se na naturalizovane građane).

There are several reasons why a naturalized US citizen could lose his or her US citizenship. We feel it’s important to summarize these reasons. As a naturalized citizen, you went to all the trouble to get your US citizenship in the first place. We’d hate to see you lose it merely because you did something wrong you did not know about.

Involuntarily Losing Your US Citizenship (Denaturalization)

Both the State Department and the USCIS have specfic laws and regulations they must follow in determining whether someone’s US citizenship should be taken away.

1. Convicted For An Act Of Treason Against The United States

Treason is a serious crime, and the Constitution defines the requirements for convicting someone of treason. Treason is waging a violent war against the United States in cooperation with a foreign country or any organized group. It includes assisting or aiding any foreign country or organization in taking over or destroying this country including abolishing the Constitution. Treason also consists of attempting by overt acts to overthrow the US government or of betraying our government into the hands of a foreign power. If you are caught and convicted of treason, you can pretty much count on losing your US citizenship as well as serving lots of jail time.

2. Holding A Policy Level Position In A Foreign Country

If you become an elected official or hold a policy-level position (like an ambassador, cabinet minister, or any high level administrative position where you make government policy) in your native country or a foreign country, you run the risk of losing your US citizenship. On the other hand, if you hold a non-policy level job like working in your native country’s embassy or working for your native country’s government in an advisory or purely administrative capacity, you run little risk of jeopardizing your US citizenship. For further information, see the State Department’s circular: ADVICE ABOUT POSSIBLE LOSS OF U.S. CITIZENSHIP AND SEEKING PUBLIC OFFICE IN A FOREIGN STATE.

3. Serving In Your Native Country’s Armed Forces If That Country Is Engaged In Hostilities Or At War With The United States

If your native country is engaged in hostile actions or is at war with America you need to be extremely careful. The US government will attempt to take away your US citizenship if they find out you are either aiding or serving in your native country’s armed forces in any capacity. Alternatively, the US government could try to nail you with a treason conviction and then strip you of your US citizenship.

4. Serving In Your Native Country’s Armed Forces As An Officer Or A Non-Commissioned Officer

If your native country is not at war with or engaged in hostilities towards the US, then serving in your native country’s armed forces is OK as long as you are not an officer or non-commissioned officer (usually the rank of sergeant or above). Serving as a civilian worker in your native country’s armed forces, or serving as an enlisted man or women are generally acceptable. For further information, see the State Department’s circular: ADVICE ABOUT POSSIBLE LOSS OF U.S. CITIZENSHIP AND FOREIGN MILITARY SERVICE.

The State Department has set several administrative guidelines for dual citizens to follow in order to avoid losing their US citizenship ( ADVICE ABOUT POSSIBLE LOSS OF U.S. CITIZENSHIP AND DUAL NATIONALITY ). The four reasons for losing US citizenship cited above were taken from these guidelines. We strongly suggest that you carefully review these guidelines if you are planning on maintaining dual citizenship. As you review the guidelines keep in mind that the State Department is primarily referring to native-born US citizens who become dual citizens by being naturalized in another foreign country. The guidelines are also applicable to naturalized US citizens who maintain their original citizenship.

5. Lying To The USCIS During The Naturalization Process

If you deliberately withheld information from or misrepresented information given to the USCIS or INS when filing your N-400, the USCIS may cancel your Certificate of Naturalization and revoke your US citizenship. This includes withholding information and misrepresenting yourself during your naturalization interview or oath ceremony. If your Certificate of Naturalization is cancelled and your US citizenship revoked, you may also find yourself facing criminal prosecution as well as deportation proceedings.

For example, if you lived outside the country for four months and deliberately omitted this absence from your N-400 and the USCIS finds out about it after you’re naturalized, they could move to have your Certificate of Naturalization cancelled. All they would need to show is that your absence would have disqualifed you from or materially affected your naturalization due to the “physical presence in the United States” requirement for naturalization applicants.

You may also lose your US citizenship if you withheld information or misled the USCIS or INS when becoming a permanent resident. If within five years of becoming a permanent resident, the USCIS finds out that you withheld information from them or misled them in order to obtain your green card, the USCIS may also strip you of your US citizenship. Of course, after five years from becoming a permanent resident, the only way the USCIS would be able to take away your US citizenship would be if you withheld or misrepresented yourself during the naturalization process.

The above examples illustrates why you need to be both truthful and accurate when filing for naturalization and permanent residency. You don’t want to give the USCIS any ammunition they could use against you later if they or someone else (like a politician or government bureaucrat) is looking for any means to get rid of you.

6. Refusal To Testify Before Congress About Your Subversive Activities

We included this legal provision for completeness. If you refuse to testify before Congress within ten years of being naturalized regarding your involvement in any subversive activities, the Attorney General can move to have your US citizenship revoked [ 8 USC 1451(a) ]. Subversive activities are not well defined but include activities such as spying, belonging to a terrorist or other organization wanting to overthrow the US, or other activities aimed at undermining our government [50 USC 783 & 843, 18 USC Ch. 115]. Of course, if you do testify before Congress about your subversive activities, you may still lose your citizenship if your testimony is later used to convict you of treason.

Teoretski, to oko žene može da se provuče pod tačkom 5, ali kapiram da bi morali da imaju debeo razlog da nekome uzmu državljanstvo pa da traže i guraju ovakve sitnice kakve si naveo. Lakše je valjda napakovati izdaju ako im neko toliko smeta.

[Grujic]

Zato sto mi nije drago da pola severne Srbije ima papire susedne drzave.

Bilo bi ok da je u pitanju, ne znam, centralna, istočna ili zapadna Srbija?

Jel si ovo ozbiljno pitao ili onako, trola radi?

[Vladapetr]

@fq400: za ženu je provera kod onih koji su državljanstvo dobili brakom sa USA državljaninom. Za to postoji ozbiljna berza, pa i kontrole umeju da budu jake. Dva člana uže familije (sestra i brat) su kroz to prošli, nisu ih mnogo cimali jer im je ionako za god-dve sledovalo državljanstvo (u USA su otišli kao izbeglice, preko neke zvanične akcije koja je ovde bila 2000-te).

[fq400]

@Grujic
Ozbiljno pitam - čovek je lepo naglasio da mu nije drago da pola severne Srbije ima dvojno državljanstvo, pa shodno tome pitam da li bi, na primer, bilo prihvatljivo da stanovnici centralne Srbije imaju dvojno državljanstvo?

Ukoliko je neprihvatljivo za bilo kog građanina Srbije da ima dvojno državljanstvo, onda nema razloga naglašavati severnu Srbiju.

Ukoliko je neprihvatljivo za građane na teritoriji severne Srbije da imaju dvojno državljanstvo, onda me zanima čemu diskriminacija? Valjda bi svi građani trebalo da imaju podjednaka prava na celoj teritoriji.

@Vlada

Znam da je zeznuto dobiti državljanstvo bilo koje zemlje, posebno USA, ali nisam znao da samim dobijanjem državljanstva nije sve 'gotovo'. Prilično zanimljiva tema...

[Grujic]

Ti baš nešto svugde nalaziš diskriminaciju?

Naravno da je rekao severna jer se radi o Mađarskom državljanstvu te je stoga ova priča konkretno vezana za severnu Srbiju, ali taj princip važi generalno, logično je zaključiti kad se hoće.

[Ji 4Tze]

Bas iz tog razloga i priupitah...


Dag, zasto ti je drago?

Zato sto mi nije drago da pola severne Srbije ima papire susedne drzave.

A šta je sa "izbeglicama" koji imaju CRO pasoš? Bosanski? Crnogorski?
I koliko stanovnika "severne Srbije" smatra da živi u "severnoj Srbiji" a ne Vojvodini?