Evo jednog testa all-season guma. Nema Michelina, pa test malo vuče na drugu stranu.
Da li kod nas ima Goodyear Vector 4Seasons Gen-2?
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/accessorie ... res-tested
EDIT: I jedan preview testa:
http://www.evo.co.uk/features/15600/mic ... ason-tyres
Univerzalne, ALL SEASON, M+S, gume kupovina da ili ne?
Re: Univerzalne, ALL SEASON, M+S, gume kupovina da ili ne?
Poslednja izmena od Heinz u 03 Okt 2015, 19:07, izmenjeno 1 put ukupno.
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dag81
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Re: Univerzalne, ALL SEASON, M+S, gume kupovina da ili ne?
Kod nas dolaze novi modeli kao i u Nemackoj npr. Samo je pitanje da li ima u tvojoj dimenziji, jer novi modeli pokriju deo dim uglavnom najpopularnijih u 0rvoj god.
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Re: Univerzalne, ALL SEASON, M+S, gume kupovina da ili ne?
205/55 R16 je valjda popularna dim.
-
dag81
- Postovi: 7508
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Re: Univerzalne, ALL SEASON, M+S, gume kupovina da ili ne?
Pogledacu pa cu javiti.
P.S. Ima je u cenovniku 90 jura. Nema je na stanju ima prve generacije Ali se moze poruciti, ako je ima u centralnom magacinu, pa bi stigla za nedelju dana otprilike.
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P.S. Ima je u cenovniku 90 jura. Nema je na stanju ima prve generacije Ali se moze poruciti, ako je ima u centralnom magacinu, pa bi stigla za nedelju dana otprilike.
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Re: Univerzalne, ALL SEASON, M+S, gume kupovina da ili ne?
Kradem sliku sa drugog foruma:
Re: Univerzalne, ALL SEASON, M+S, gume kupovina da ili ne?
Zanimljiva analiza: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/tpms-law ... david-shaw
At the Frankfurt IAA motor show yesterday, two major themes emerged from my conversations with tire makers:
New European legislation on TPMS is pushing tire makers to develop super-charged All-Season tires for European markets
Global legislation on fuel economy means car makers are setting extreme targets for tire rolling resistance
EU market moving toward All-Season tires
North America has long been known as the key market for All-Season tires. Europe, by contrast, has developed a clear Summer/Winter split. Over half the tires sold in Germany’s replacement market in 2014 were specialised Winter tires.
What's more, over the last decade or so, Winter tires have contributed heavily to tire makers' profits in the region.
The introduction of EU laws requiring all new cars sold from November 2014 to fit an on-board tire pressure monitoring system (TPMS) is driving a change in Europe. Tire makers have been developing a new class of high-performance All-Season tires.
Why create a new product segment to damage Winter tire sales?
Some TPMS (indirect systems) require a re-calibration each time the tires are changed, and whenever the pressure is topped up. Many drivers never re-calibrate their TPMS systems. When TPMS were optional, this was not such a big deal, but now that they are universal in Europe, the bi-annual change of tires will negate the clear fuel-economy benefits associated with TPMS.
Other sensors (direct systems) are expensive and add substantially to the cost of the spare set of tires.
In response, tire makers are racing to find tread compounds and patterns that offer appropriate performance in all but the most severe weather conditions.
All-Seasons not for severe weather
Most observers expect the Summer/Winter split to remain in place in the Alps; in Scandinavia, Russia and other areas where snow lies more or less permanently.
But in parts of Germany and Austria; most of the UK, the Netherlands, Spain, Western France; large parts of Italy and other countries, the super-charged All-Season is a good compromise when snow lies on the ground for only a few days each year.
Technical challenges are different from existing All-Seasons
The challenge is to reduce wear in the warm Summer months; to ensure grip in ice, slush and snow and to deliver stable high-speed performance throughout the year. And all at the same time as improving fuel economy.
Leading this change was the Pirelli Cinturato All-Season launched in Sicily in January 2015.
Nokian brought out its Weatherproof range in February. That was quickly followed by Michelin’s CrossClimate; Hankook’s Kinergy 4S and Goodyear’s 2nd Generation Vector 4Season. I may have missed one or two, but the trend is clear. And I am sure that more will be launched in the coming months.
New products selling well
The word is that these products are selling extremely well: European consumers are prepared to pay for a tire which can perform in Summer and also meets legislative and insurance requirements in Germany, Italy and other countries which require appropriate tires for the weather conditions.
New tread compounds
Developing a suitable tread compound is not too challenging – take a standard Summer compound; drop the glass transition temperature a bit; develop a slightly different mix of BR and S-SBR; put in yet more silica, maybe throw in a bit of terpene resin and ensure really good dispersive mixing.
Tread pattern is the tricky bit
It’s the tread pattern which presents the biggest challenge. In Winter tires, sipes are good. They cut through the thin layer of water beneath the tire to make contact with the ground.
In Summer tires, sipes are bad: they rub against each other and against the road to make the tire wear much faster. They also add to rolling resistance and raise fuel consumption.
In Winter tires, a tread with large blocks and big gaps is good: those blocks and voids help bite into snow and slush to improve grip.
In Summer tires, the ideal tread pattern has a less blocky style to minimise noise and has a near-continuous centre rib to deliver good straight-line stability.
So the new generation of high-performance All-Seasons go light on the siping; have carefully-designed centre structures which deliver a near-continuous centre rib yet, also allow the tire to grip on snow and slush. Pirelli's All-Season pictured above typifies this approach.
Rolling resistance is the bête noir for tire makers
The second key trend I saw in Frankfurt is a drive for much lower rolling resistance.
Delivering ultra-low rolling resistance is easy. Delivering A-rated (EU-labelling scheme) rolling resistance as well as A- or B-rated wet grip is more difficult. Delivering that A-B rating without compromising longevity and wear performance is so difficult that all but the most competent tire makers are running a bit scared.
Wear life is suffering
And even the most competent among the tire makers are having to compromise a little on longevity, if the most recent tire tests are to be believed.
Car makers around the world are being hit by ever-tighter fuel economy legislation. Car makers can improve fuel economy in a variety of ways, but one of the easiest and most cost-effective is to push tire makers to do the work for them.
Car makers pushing for huge improvements in fuel economy
And that is what we are seeing. Every one of the tire makers I spoke to yesterday confirmed that car makers expect their OE tires to have A-ratings for fuel economy in a 2 to 5 year period. With no compromise on longevity and probably an improvement in wet grip.
Not only are they pushing the tire makers to come up with some incredible technical achievements, but they want them to shrink their R&D cycles to come up with these developments in shorter timescales. From a typical five-year development cycle, car makers are now looking for a 2-year development cycle.
This is really sorting the leaders from the followers. I’ve written before that the tire industry is dividing into leaders, who really drive the concepts, thinking and technology and those who simply copy.
Rolling resistance requires new science
That divide is being played out in the field of tire performance. The battleground is highly technical and right at the cutting edge of science, bringing together molecular design, large-scale computing; nano-technology as well as highly non-linear analyses of macro-scale processing:
New materials which can reduce internal friction;
New understanding of filler-filler and filler-rubber interactions;
Better analysis at 10nm scale of the stress concentrators around filler particles under dynamic loading and deformation;
Improved mixing processes to deliver near-perfect dispersion;
High-specific surface fillers for better interactions
Better modelling of the wear processes and the strain energy-induced cracking of rubber;
Better understanding of the different phases of NR, BR and S-SBR within the compound, and
Increasingly, corporate directives to reduce the use of NR, since it’s molecular structure cannot be controlled.
In addition to this we are seeing a great increase in the use of hybrid reinforcement cords for the belt. These mix aramid and polyamide (Nylon) in 1:1 or 2:1 or even 1:2 combinations to deliver longitudinal stiffness (from the aramid) but also flexibility from the nylon. Designing reinforcement belts with different hybrids; varying the pitch between cords and then changing the pre-tension in the centre cords compared to the outer ones is another technique used to reduce rolling resistance, especially at high speeds.
No tire maker outside the top 10 has the resources to extend the boundaries of science needed to deliver the next generation of tires. And even a few of the top 10 are struggling.
Increasing customisation by car makers
We are already seeing vehicle makers seeking to customise their products for increasingly discerning customers. I think that trend will continue to the point where each model (Such as Polo or Corolla) has a range of variants according to their eco-impact.
At the top of this scale will be the ‘blue’ class which offer minimal environmental impact. At the other end will be more standard – and lower-priced – models.
Vehicle makers will look to their most competent tire partners to develop new, low environmental impact systems and components for the models with high eco-credentials. At the lower end, OE tires will increasingly become commoditised, as a range of Asian and other non-traditional tire makers seek to win OE-contracts with the prestige marques.
More tire makers entering OE business
We are already seeing a lot more OE contracts with smaller, and regional tire makers. From what I hear in the market, the buyers at VW and Ford and others are especially busy assessing more and more potential suppliers. They are using those to beat down prices even further.
At the Frankfurt IAA motor show yesterday, two major themes emerged from my conversations with tire makers:
New European legislation on TPMS is pushing tire makers to develop super-charged All-Season tires for European markets
Global legislation on fuel economy means car makers are setting extreme targets for tire rolling resistance
EU market moving toward All-Season tires
North America has long been known as the key market for All-Season tires. Europe, by contrast, has developed a clear Summer/Winter split. Over half the tires sold in Germany’s replacement market in 2014 were specialised Winter tires.
What's more, over the last decade or so, Winter tires have contributed heavily to tire makers' profits in the region.
The introduction of EU laws requiring all new cars sold from November 2014 to fit an on-board tire pressure monitoring system (TPMS) is driving a change in Europe. Tire makers have been developing a new class of high-performance All-Season tires.
Why create a new product segment to damage Winter tire sales?
Some TPMS (indirect systems) require a re-calibration each time the tires are changed, and whenever the pressure is topped up. Many drivers never re-calibrate their TPMS systems. When TPMS were optional, this was not such a big deal, but now that they are universal in Europe, the bi-annual change of tires will negate the clear fuel-economy benefits associated with TPMS.
Other sensors (direct systems) are expensive and add substantially to the cost of the spare set of tires.
In response, tire makers are racing to find tread compounds and patterns that offer appropriate performance in all but the most severe weather conditions.
All-Seasons not for severe weather
Most observers expect the Summer/Winter split to remain in place in the Alps; in Scandinavia, Russia and other areas where snow lies more or less permanently.
But in parts of Germany and Austria; most of the UK, the Netherlands, Spain, Western France; large parts of Italy and other countries, the super-charged All-Season is a good compromise when snow lies on the ground for only a few days each year.
Technical challenges are different from existing All-Seasons
The challenge is to reduce wear in the warm Summer months; to ensure grip in ice, slush and snow and to deliver stable high-speed performance throughout the year. And all at the same time as improving fuel economy.
Leading this change was the Pirelli Cinturato All-Season launched in Sicily in January 2015.
Nokian brought out its Weatherproof range in February. That was quickly followed by Michelin’s CrossClimate; Hankook’s Kinergy 4S and Goodyear’s 2nd Generation Vector 4Season. I may have missed one or two, but the trend is clear. And I am sure that more will be launched in the coming months.
New products selling well
The word is that these products are selling extremely well: European consumers are prepared to pay for a tire which can perform in Summer and also meets legislative and insurance requirements in Germany, Italy and other countries which require appropriate tires for the weather conditions.
New tread compounds
Developing a suitable tread compound is not too challenging – take a standard Summer compound; drop the glass transition temperature a bit; develop a slightly different mix of BR and S-SBR; put in yet more silica, maybe throw in a bit of terpene resin and ensure really good dispersive mixing.
Tread pattern is the tricky bit
It’s the tread pattern which presents the biggest challenge. In Winter tires, sipes are good. They cut through the thin layer of water beneath the tire to make contact with the ground.
In Summer tires, sipes are bad: they rub against each other and against the road to make the tire wear much faster. They also add to rolling resistance and raise fuel consumption.
In Winter tires, a tread with large blocks and big gaps is good: those blocks and voids help bite into snow and slush to improve grip.
In Summer tires, the ideal tread pattern has a less blocky style to minimise noise and has a near-continuous centre rib to deliver good straight-line stability.
So the new generation of high-performance All-Seasons go light on the siping; have carefully-designed centre structures which deliver a near-continuous centre rib yet, also allow the tire to grip on snow and slush. Pirelli's All-Season pictured above typifies this approach.
Rolling resistance is the bête noir for tire makers
The second key trend I saw in Frankfurt is a drive for much lower rolling resistance.
Delivering ultra-low rolling resistance is easy. Delivering A-rated (EU-labelling scheme) rolling resistance as well as A- or B-rated wet grip is more difficult. Delivering that A-B rating without compromising longevity and wear performance is so difficult that all but the most competent tire makers are running a bit scared.
Wear life is suffering
And even the most competent among the tire makers are having to compromise a little on longevity, if the most recent tire tests are to be believed.
Car makers around the world are being hit by ever-tighter fuel economy legislation. Car makers can improve fuel economy in a variety of ways, but one of the easiest and most cost-effective is to push tire makers to do the work for them.
Car makers pushing for huge improvements in fuel economy
And that is what we are seeing. Every one of the tire makers I spoke to yesterday confirmed that car makers expect their OE tires to have A-ratings for fuel economy in a 2 to 5 year period. With no compromise on longevity and probably an improvement in wet grip.
Not only are they pushing the tire makers to come up with some incredible technical achievements, but they want them to shrink their R&D cycles to come up with these developments in shorter timescales. From a typical five-year development cycle, car makers are now looking for a 2-year development cycle.
This is really sorting the leaders from the followers. I’ve written before that the tire industry is dividing into leaders, who really drive the concepts, thinking and technology and those who simply copy.
Rolling resistance requires new science
That divide is being played out in the field of tire performance. The battleground is highly technical and right at the cutting edge of science, bringing together molecular design, large-scale computing; nano-technology as well as highly non-linear analyses of macro-scale processing:
New materials which can reduce internal friction;
New understanding of filler-filler and filler-rubber interactions;
Better analysis at 10nm scale of the stress concentrators around filler particles under dynamic loading and deformation;
Improved mixing processes to deliver near-perfect dispersion;
High-specific surface fillers for better interactions
Better modelling of the wear processes and the strain energy-induced cracking of rubber;
Better understanding of the different phases of NR, BR and S-SBR within the compound, and
Increasingly, corporate directives to reduce the use of NR, since it’s molecular structure cannot be controlled.
In addition to this we are seeing a great increase in the use of hybrid reinforcement cords for the belt. These mix aramid and polyamide (Nylon) in 1:1 or 2:1 or even 1:2 combinations to deliver longitudinal stiffness (from the aramid) but also flexibility from the nylon. Designing reinforcement belts with different hybrids; varying the pitch between cords and then changing the pre-tension in the centre cords compared to the outer ones is another technique used to reduce rolling resistance, especially at high speeds.
No tire maker outside the top 10 has the resources to extend the boundaries of science needed to deliver the next generation of tires. And even a few of the top 10 are struggling.
Increasing customisation by car makers
We are already seeing vehicle makers seeking to customise their products for increasingly discerning customers. I think that trend will continue to the point where each model (Such as Polo or Corolla) has a range of variants according to their eco-impact.
At the top of this scale will be the ‘blue’ class which offer minimal environmental impact. At the other end will be more standard – and lower-priced – models.
Vehicle makers will look to their most competent tire partners to develop new, low environmental impact systems and components for the models with high eco-credentials. At the lower end, OE tires will increasingly become commoditised, as a range of Asian and other non-traditional tire makers seek to win OE-contracts with the prestige marques.
More tire makers entering OE business
We are already seeing a lot more OE contracts with smaller, and regional tire makers. From what I hear in the market, the buyers at VW and Ford and others are especially busy assessing more and more potential suppliers. They are using those to beat down prices even further.
-
dag81
- Postovi: 7508
- Pridružio se: 13 Jan 2012, 09:09
- Garaža: BMW1 118d i Doblo JTD radna makina :)
- Lokacija: Novi Sad
- Kontakt:
Re: Univerzalne, ALL SEASON, M+S, gume kupovina da ili ne?
Samo uporedni testovi su koliko toliko merodavni. Sve brosure prodavca su za mene cist marleting.
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Re: Univerzalne, ALL SEASON, M+S, gume kupovina da ili ne?
Misliš na uporedne testove all season u odnosu na letnje i zimske ili uporedne testove između all season guma?
Rad je stvorio čoveka, a nerad.......gospodina
Re: Univerzalne, ALL SEASON, M+S, gume kupovina da ili ne?
Nešto od toga ima u temi:
Uporedni test all-season guma je radio AutoBild, ali nemamo tekst, samo onu jednu tabelu par postova iznad.
Uporedni test sa zimskim i letnjim gumama za CrossClimate je radio TUV za Michelin, ali tu se poredi CC sa starim Goodyear Vector 4s, sa Michelin Alpin A5 i Eco Saver valjda.
Nešto je radio i AutoExpress, ima i toga ovde u temi.
Nemamo poređenje GY Gen 2 sa zimskim i letnjim. Kao ni neki ADAC ili sl. test za 2015.
Uporedni test all-season guma je radio AutoBild, ali nemamo tekst, samo onu jednu tabelu par postova iznad.
Uporedni test sa zimskim i letnjim gumama za CrossClimate je radio TUV za Michelin, ali tu se poredi CC sa starim Goodyear Vector 4s, sa Michelin Alpin A5 i Eco Saver valjda.
Nešto je radio i AutoExpress, ima i toga ovde u temi.
Nemamo poređenje GY Gen 2 sa zimskim i letnjim. Kao ni neki ADAC ili sl. test za 2015.
-
ivancho
- Postovi: 3852
- Pridružio se: 13 Jan 2012, 08:59
- Garaža: Octavia 1,6d
- Lokacija: Zemun
- Kontakt:
Re: Univerzalne, ALL SEASON, M+S, gume kupovina da ili ne?
Heinz napisao:Da li kod nas ima Goodyear Vector 4Seasons Gen-2?
205/55R16 94V VEC 4SEASONS G2 XL - 54pcs for 10/22/15
205/55R16 91V VEC 4SEASONS G2 - 50 pcs End of November
Re: Univerzalne, ALL SEASON, M+S, gume kupovina da ili ne?
Ako vidiš i cenu pusti na PM.
TT
TT
Re: Univerzalne, ALL SEASON, M+S, gume kupovina da ili ne?
Evo testa urađenog od strane AutoBilda: http://www.autobild.de/artikel/ganzjahr ... 28195.html
Nije baš detaljan jer trenutno nemam 2€ da platim primerak
http://www.autobild.de/heftarchiv/hefta ... 28927.html
Ovde nešto malo piše: http://www.autobild.de/bilder/ganzjahre ... html#bild1
Možda sačekam GY Gen2 ipak
Nije baš detaljan jer trenutno nemam 2€ da platim primerak
http://www.autobild.de/heftarchiv/hefta ... 28927.htmlOvde nešto malo piše: http://www.autobild.de/bilder/ganzjahre ... html#bild1
Možda sačekam GY Gen2 ipak
-
dag81
- Postovi: 7508
- Pridružio se: 13 Jan 2012, 09:09
- Garaža: BMW1 118d i Doblo JTD radna makina :)
- Lokacija: Novi Sad
- Kontakt:
Re: Univerzalne, ALL SEASON, M+S, gume kupovina da ili ne?
Ipak sacekaj, licno vise im verujem a i kroz generacije orave najbolje all season gume a cena je cak i malo niza od mich.
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Re: Univerzalne, ALL SEASON, M+S, gume kupovina da ili ne?
Daleko je kraj novembra. Ili da stavljam XL?
