Ratna tehnika

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Dusan
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Re: Ratna tehnika

Post od Dusan »

aviator napisao:Ima li podatak o količinama po godinama? Posebno me interesuju engleske "donacije". [WINKING FACE]
Dobar post sa reddita, ali nisu specificno engleske donacije vec sve ukupno,
THE SHORTER ANSWER
On the whole, the lend-lease accounted for only a small portion of Soviet combat armament (tanks, trucks, planes, ships, artillery pieces, etc.). That much is a fact, and Soviet-era propaganda never let that fact sleep in peace. However, these armaments, precisely the aid from Britain that arrived in late-1941, made a powerful impact in 1941–1942 (especially during the Battle of Moscow). And if the Soviets had lost at Moscow, it would have taken a much longer time for Germany to be defeated, if at all. In addition, the lend-lease accounted for a sizable portion of Soviet war amenities and materiel, like gasoline, aluminum, explosive agents (this in particular was VERY significant), steel (this in particular was decisive), non-perishable food, etc.

THE LONGER ANSWER
Tanks:
At the outbreak of war in June 1941, the USSR had roughly 22,600–23,100 tanks and self-propelled guns [MK][BVS] (the largest tank force in the world at the time) against Germany's invading force of 3,350 [DG1]. This opened the Eastern Front of WWII. In total, Germany had 5,639 tanks and assault guns at the time, but did not deploy all of them for the invasion [PB].
In several classic battles of encirclement, the Germans wiped out the Soviet prewar armada of tanks – an estimated 20,500 were lost by the end of December 1941[K]. The Germans, on the other hand, were in a very bad shape as well. They were left with only 35% of their initial tank strength (~1,100 tanks) in the Eastern Front by the end of October [DG2], many of which would be lost to attrition and winter-induced defects in the following two months. The two titans were at their limit, and this is where the British Lend-Lease Aid of 1941 (which began in October) helped to turn the tide. In an interesting paper published in the official peer-reviewed journal of the Society for Military History, Alexander Hill convincingly showed that:
British-supplied tanks made up in the region of 30 to 40 percent of the heavy and medium tank strength of Soviet forces before Moscow at the beginning of December 1941, and that they made up a significant proportion of such vehicles available as reinforcements at this critical juncture [AH].
But this important detail is lost in the big picture where the USSR produced 102,500 tanks and self-propelled guns for the whole war (according to the official Soviet history of the Great Patriotic War, completed in 1965) [AH], whereas the US, Britain and Canada altogether supplied only 12,537 tanks and self-propelled guns [BVS]. This means the Lend-Lease aid accounts for only 11% of tanks. But the same Soviet account declared that Lend-Lease aid only amounted to 7% of tanks; and unfortunately you'll see this figure alongside, 1.9% for all artillery, 13% for aircraft and 4% for total military production, floating around on the internet (all are from the same official Soviet account).
In 2007, the renowned Russian historian Boris Vadimovich Sokolov published a paper in a highly reputed peer-reviewed journal that thoroughly trashed this Soviet-era propaganda tract. Using production reports and declassified documents, he also thoroughly showed that the figure of 100,000+ tanks is likely a serious inflation, and that the actual proportion from Lend-Lease aid is around 24% [BVS]. If you can get your hands on Sokolov's paper (requires subscription to the online database Taylor & Francis), it will completely answer all your questions. I'm so tempted to upload and share it here, but that would be a copyright violation.
Unfortunately I'm running late, so I'll keep the rest brief. Sorry!

Aircraft
Official public Soviet-era figures all place the proportion of Lend-Lease aid at 13–15%. Sokolov's analysis places it at ~30%.

Fuel
The US, Britain and Canada supplied the USSR with 2.586 million tonne of aviation fuel and light-fraction gasoline, 1.4 times greater than the Soviet production during the war [BVS]. That was a very big boost to the Soviet Air Force.

Explosives
Sokolov stated the following:
Allied supplies of powder and explosive materials also played an important role. We assess the production of explosive materials in the USSR during the period from mid-1941 to mid-1945 as approximately 600,000 tons. No less than 295,600 tonne of explosive materials were supplied by the US. In addition, 22,300 tons of powder were supplied by Great Britain and Canada. Thus, Western deliveries of explosive materials reached 53 per cent of the total volume of Soviet production.

Tires
Sokolov stated the following:
We must also note that American deliveries played an essential role in the supply of the USSR with tire covers (outer tires) and separate types of food-stuffs. Lend-Lease supplied the Soviet Union with 3,606,000 tire covers, at the same time that the Soviet industry of 1941–45 delivered 8,368,000 tire covers (which included only 2,884,000 of the large tire covers named "Gigant"), while in 1945 vehicle tire cover production constituted 1,370,000 in comparison with 3,389,000 in 1941. American deliveries amounted to 43.1 per cent of Soviet production.

References
[MK] Martin Kahn. Russia Will Assuredly Be Defeated: Anglo-American Government Assessments of Soviet War Potential before Operation Barbarossa. (Peer-reviewed journal article). Link: http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10. ... 012.676498.
[PB] Pier Battistelli (2008). Panzer Divisions: The Eastern Front 1941-43. (Book). Page 65.
[K] Grigory Krivosheev, Soviet Casualties and Combat Losses in the Twentieth Century. Page 252
[DG1] David Glantz (2010). Barbarossa Derailed: The Battle for Smolensk – Volume 1. (Book). Page 20.
[DG2] David Glantz (2012). Operation Barbarossa: Hitler’s Invasion of Russia 1941. (Book). Page 183.
[AH] Alexander Hill (2007). British Lend-Lease Aid and the Soviet War Effort, June 1941–June 1942. (Peer-reviewed journal). The Journal of Military History: Vol. 71, issue 3.
[BVS] Boris V. Sokolov (2007). The role of lend‐lease in Soviet military efforts, 1941–1945. (Peer-reviewed journal). The Journal of Slavic Military Studies: Vol. 7, issue 3, pages 567-586. (Originally published in Russian in 1994).
There's nothing worse than making your hand and losing it all, because you were drawing dead to start with.
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Re: Ratna tehnika

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HKS napisao:Koriste li se Mig21 u RV Srbije? Koliko njih ima?

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Saša napisao:Naravno, imamo ih, ali je u letnom stanju svega jedan ili dva.
Imamo 3 (tri) Mig 21 UM svi su dvosedi, dakle sluze za obuku. Skoro je dva komada remontovao zavod Moma. Poslednji jednosed koji je bio operativan povucen je prosle godine iz upotrebe. Treba reci da od naoruzanja gotovo da nemaju nista, a skoro su modifikovali mislim jedan na koji su integrisali nosace za rakete R60.
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Re: Ratna tehnika

Post od kvcali »

Slika

^^^
https://youtu.be/y5fvCJ-xc48

sva moc VKS-a na jednom videu, prilicno dobro odslikana ;)
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Cica Maca
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Re: Ratna tehnika

Post od Cica Maca »

snork napisao: Jel znaš možda koja je bila masa motora u sovjetskom T-34? Ne uspevam da nađem na internetu... Samo da je V12 dizel, 38.8 l zapremine, u "atmo" varijanti oko 500 ks, u varijantama sa kompresorom (mehaničkim, ne turbo) 700-900 ks.

Da li je masa motora kod tenka bitan parametar? Nije to avion... :D Kapiram da tona više ili manje ne utiče previše na performanse.

Nisam poznavalac vojne tehnike, ali mi više deluje da su Nemci hteli da im sve radi na jednu vrstu goriva, zbog lakše logistike. A benzin su svakako morali imati (i često nositi sa sobom), zbog aviona.

By the way... kad je u pohodu na Rusiju temperatura pala na -30, u smislu lakšeg rada na niskim temperaturama benzin im nije mnogo pomogao. :kezo:
Da ne ostanem duzan. Jedini podatak do koga sam ja uspeo da dodjem je 750kg, sto je relativno malo u odnosu na Majbaha. Ovde se, naravno, postavlja pitanje, da li se masa motora odnosi samo na suvi motor ili/i pomocne agregate. Ali, ima jedna stvar koja je jako interesantna. Sve do pred kraj 1943. godine, V-2 je patio od veoma kratkog resursa i katastrofalnih otkaza (citaj lomova). Nov motor, sa ne adekvatnom i ne proverenom konstrukcijom,...

Povecanje snage na originalnom motoru je samo js vise smanjilo resurse, zato su KV-1, KV-2, KV-3... imali KATASTROFALNU pouzdanost pogonske grupe. Nemam pouzdanih podataka, ali smem da tvrdim da su vise vremena bili popravljani nego sto su provodili na marsu ili na prvoj liniji.

Masa motora jeste bitan faktor, cak i kod tenkova. Manji, laksi motor ce zauzeti i manji prostor u vozilu. Posledica je veci prostor u borbenom odeljenju, veca kolicina goriva i municije... Dakle, sama masa u smislu kg pogonske grupe sama po sebi nije toliko bitna koliko je bitna kompaktnost, tj. zauzeta zapremina m3. Primeri, Leyland L60 na britanskom Ciftenu i sovjetski 5TDF na T-64
i 6TD na T-80UD, T-84 i Al-Khalid-u.

Na -30 nece ni benzinac da pali ako nije predvidjen. Duzio/vozio neko u vojci fapa njuskasa sa pogonom i na prednjoj osovini? Stojim da je iz prvog verglanja, okrenuo radilicu samo par puta, upalio na -27! Naravno, priprema motora i dizela pre toga iz kabine a bili su doneti i puni akumulatori iz akumulatorske stanice.
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Re: Ratna tehnika

Post od snork »

CicaMaco, hvala na trudu! Naravno da je sve u pripremi pred paljenje motora. Glavna fora je verovatno bila loženje vatre ispod kartera, kako bi ulje postalo koliko-toliko tečno. Pošto je tenk oklopljen, o tome je trebalo misliti u vreme projektovanja, što su Rusi verovatno i uradili, a Nemci nisu.
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Re: Ratna tehnika

Post od BAJKER »

Cica Maca@ Ne treba zaboraviti cinjenicu da su rakete V2 sklapali zarobljenici te da je bilo i sabotaza, sve se je diglo na "visi" nivo sto se montaze tice kada je dosao SS i zaveo svoje represije. V3 je u pocetku patio zbog svoje lose konstrukcije a sto si i sam naveo, bila emisija na Discivery kanalima gde je objasnjeno.
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snork
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Re: Ratna tehnika

Post od snork »

Ne govori Cica Maca o nemačkoj V-2 raketi, već o gore pomenutom sovjetskom dizel motoru, oznake " V-2", koji je išao u tenkove. :D
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Re: Ratna tehnika

Post od Cica Maca »

Bajkeru, sedi! Jedinica!
Opet nisi pratio gradivo na casu!!!

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Geza
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Re: Ratna tehnika

Post od Geza »

Počelo je: Oštre mašine za našeg borbenog diva
http://www.b92.net/biz/vesti/srbija.php ... id=1201645

Potpisivanjem sporazuma praktično je počelo formiranje konzorcijuma za proizvodnju novog vojnog borbenog vozila.

Poslovodstvo Zastave i predstavnici Ministarstva privrede upravo su potpisali sporazum kojim je država preuzela hale, deo mašina i ostale opreme Zastavine fabrike kamiona, u kojoj će se "nakon određenih aktivnosti, formirati novo preduzeće".

"Novo preduzeće će proizvoditi komercijalna i vojna terenska vozila, kao i kupole za borbena vozila", i u kojem bi, prema saznanjima lista "Danas", trebalo da bude angažovano do 170 radnika.

Potpisivanjem sporazuma praktično je počelo formiranje konzorcijuma za proizvodnju novog vojnog borbenog vozila koji će, pored Kamiona, činiti FAP iz Priboja i Prva petoletka iz Trstenika, a u poslednje vreme u tom kontekstu se pominje i fabrika Jugoimporta u Velikoj Plani u kojoj se proizvodi borbeno vozilo "Lazar".

Novo vojno borbeno vozilo, čiji je radni naziv FAP 2026 PS/AV 6X6 (pogon na šest točkova) radiće se na platformi FAP-a. Zastavina fabrika kamiona zadužena je za proizvodnju oklopne kabine, što je i navedeno u ovonedeljnom sporazumu sa Ministarstvom privrede, a trstenička Prva petoletka za izradu sistema BOFORS, odnosno protivavionskog topa kalibra 40 milimetara.

U Zastava kamionima, odnosno u preduzeću koje bude formirano u toj fabrici, proizvodiće se i terensko neborbeno vojno vozilo, čiji je prototip još pre više godina predstavljen nadležnima u Vojci Srbije i Ministarstvu odbrane.

Kako je sporazumom o podržavljenju fabrike predviđena i proizvodnja komercijalnih vozila, ostaje da se vidi da li će kragujevačke "kamiondžije", u taj posao da uđu samostalno ili u saradnji sa nekim od ino-partnera. Za saradnju su svojevremeno najozbiljnije bile zainteresovane najznačajnije kineske kompanije za proizvodnju teretnih i terenskih vozila, državna JAK motors i privatna Huang hai. Istovremeno je najavljivana i mogućnost saradnje sa ruskim GAZ, kao i sa još nekim inostranim kompanijama.
Najgore je svađati se sa budalom. Prvo te spusti na svoj nivo, a onda te dotuče iskustvom...
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Re: Ratna tehnika

Post od Heineken »

Ukrajina

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPtYo7pYUyY
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superboss
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Re: Ratna tehnika

Post od superboss »

Kao u igri :)
What i do for the livin'? I live for the livin'.
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HKS
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Re: Ratna tehnika

Post od HKS »

Koja je fora oko ovih nuklearnih vozova, tj koja je njihova prednost?

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maxer
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Re: Ratna tehnika

Post od maxer »

Nikad čuo :zbunjen:

Daj detalje/info.
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Geza
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Re: Ratna tehnika

Post od Geza »

https://www.rt.com/news/railroad-based- ... ussia-429/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2FhiMMwUSI
Najgore je svađati se sa budalom. Prvo te spusti na svoj nivo, a onda te dotuče iskustvom...
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Re: Ratna tehnika

Post od kvcali »

fora sa njima je sto se ne raspoznaju u odnosu na druge vozove, niko ne zna da li vozi drva ili rakete, moze da se krece po celoj teritoriji rusije koja je ogromna i ima ogromnu mrezu pruga, prakticno je neuhvatljiv za lociranje, zabranjeni su ponekom sporazumu o razoruzanju, ali se pomine da ce da ga vrate u sluzbu ponovo
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