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Alternativni pogoni, sistemi i komponente
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dragvorl
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Re: Alternativni pogoni, sistemi i komponente
Mauro Forghieri:"Power comes from speed, torque without speed is nothing"
Life is funny, skies are sunny, Bees make honey, who needs money
Re: Alternativni pogoni, sistemi i komponente
Meni samo jedna fotka pada na pamet kad neko pomene Prius (tacnije, 3 al nema veze xD)
(druga je Dodge koji purnja na oba auspuha i pise nesto slicno ovome, a trece je slika sa 9gag, kada su u Fifth gearu terali Prius i M3 punim gasom i Prius je trosio vise xD)
A, da se vratimo na temu.
Ubedjen sam da postoji tehnologija koja moze da napravi ono o cemu pricamo. Tj baterije sa vecim kapacitetima, itd., ali naftaski lobi je najjaci na svetu i to nije lose (ja volim naftu
)
S druge strane, verujem da postoje i lekovi za vecinu bolesti, ali da se iz ovog ili onog razloga to ne pusta u javnost.
Verujem i da su elektricna kola samo jedna stavka medju alternativama, a da ce se zapravo za 50 ili 100 godina kola voziti, tj sagorevace ili koristiti nesto potpuno deseto.
Moj idealan auto je zapravo vrlo blizu (samo da postanu malo laksi)
2.0 (ili jaci) dizel + minijaturan el. motor. (peugeot ima tako nesto). el motor da se koristi u guzvama, na parkingu itd., a da se vozi na obican dizel. Pri obilazenjima taj isti el motor daje dodatne Nm i snagu dizelu. Nista vise elektricno ili hibridno od toga ne zelim, a pogotovo ne zelim 2 tone tezak auto sa autonomijom od 300 kilometara, gde ce motor da sluzi kao agregat za napajanje elektro...
(druga je Dodge koji purnja na oba auspuha i pise nesto slicno ovome, a trece je slika sa 9gag, kada su u Fifth gearu terali Prius i M3 punim gasom i Prius je trosio vise xD)
A, da se vratimo na temu.
Ubedjen sam da postoji tehnologija koja moze da napravi ono o cemu pricamo. Tj baterije sa vecim kapacitetima, itd., ali naftaski lobi je najjaci na svetu i to nije lose (ja volim naftu
)S druge strane, verujem da postoje i lekovi za vecinu bolesti, ali da se iz ovog ili onog razloga to ne pusta u javnost.
Verujem i da su elektricna kola samo jedna stavka medju alternativama, a da ce se zapravo za 50 ili 100 godina kola voziti, tj sagorevace ili koristiti nesto potpuno deseto.
Moj idealan auto je zapravo vrlo blizu (samo da postanu malo laksi)
2.0 (ili jaci) dizel + minijaturan el. motor. (peugeot ima tako nesto). el motor da se koristi u guzvama, na parkingu itd., a da se vozi na obican dizel. Pri obilazenjima taj isti el motor daje dodatne Nm i snagu dizelu. Nista vise elektricno ili hibridno od toga ne zelim, a pogotovo ne zelim 2 tone tezak auto sa autonomijom od 300 kilometara, gde ce motor da sluzi kao agregat za napajanje elektro...
Re: Alternativni pogoni, sistemi i komponente
Hmm, hibridi, kako to mrzim
Zasto su uglavnom benzinci, pa sta znam, da probam i ja svoje misljenje da iznesem, al ne garantujem da je tacno.
Rekao bih kombinacija svega i svacega... Kao sto dragvorl rece, najmasovnije su krenuli u US gde je dizel no no. Zatim, hibridi su vec dovoljno teski zbog baterija i elektro motora, ako u pricu ubacimo jos i dizel agregat onda stvar postaje jos gora. Razlika u radu i prelazima izmedju elekro/benzin i elektro/dizel je znatno uocljivija u drugoj varijanti, kad iskombinujete tihog benzinca sa elktro motorom promene mogu biti dosta neprimente, sa druge strane kod dizela to nije slucaj. Hibridi su iovako skupi, ubacivanjem dizela postaju jos skuplji. Razlika u potrosnji izmedju benzica hibrida i dizela hibrida nije velika, tj razlika je daleko manja nego izmedju cisto benzinskog i cisto dizelskog auta pa razlika u ceni opet nije opravdana. Smatram da je razlika u potrosnji mala jer je dosta drugaciji rad motora u hibridu i obicnom autu.
Znaci nema naftaski lobi veze sa trenutnim kapacitetima baterija, oni su takvi kakvi su i danasnja tehnologija ne moze vise. Uostalom, proizvodjaci mobilnih telefona i laptopova muku muce sa trajanjem baterija stavljaju najbolje sto postoji ali bolje nema. Baterije po elektro/hibridnim vozilima su manje vise iste kao i u mobilnim telefonima.
Takodje ovde dolazimo do ogromnog problema o kome se jako malo prica. Ajd i da zanemarimo zagadjenje prilikom proizvodnje baterija, ogroman problem je reciklaza modernih baterija (dakle litiumskih). Za razliku od obicnih akumulatora gde imate olovo i kiselinu i gde se 99.9 posto sve lagano reciklira ovde je prica znatno drugacija. Kada baterija zavrsi svoj zivot dobijete neku zelatinastu masu koja je neverovatna kombinacija svih mogucih teskih metala i otrova, prakticno nemoguce za reciklazu, dakle gomila opasnog otpada. Takodje, ni litium nije materijal koga ima u neogranicenim oklicinama, masovna upotreba elektro vozila ne bi smanjila cenu baterija, znatno bi je povecala zbog cene litiuma, mada moram da priznam da ovde ima nekih oprecnih misljenja o dostupnosti litiuma.
Trenutno se dosta nade polaze u nove sisteme skladistenja energije pomocu vodonika ali pod niskim pritiskom. Danas je neophodno koristiti vodonik pod ekstremnim pritiscima sto stvara ogromne probleme (pre svega zbog zastite) ali ako bude moguce masovno koriscenje vodonika pri pritiscima od svega nekoliko bara to ce biti veliki pomak, kao sto rekoh ovo bi moglo da zazivi. Takodje sa vodonikom imas problem sto je na kraju iskoristivost celog procesa dosta niska, recimo oko 50% (dakle od pocetne energije koju ulazes za pravljenje vodonika do one koju oslobodis sagorevanjem vodonika ili pokretanjem auta na elektricni pogon na el energiju oslobodjenu u gorivnim celijama) sto je manje nego sa obicnim baterijama.
Zasto su uglavnom benzinci, pa sta znam, da probam i ja svoje misljenje da iznesem, al ne garantujem da je tacno.
Rekao bih kombinacija svega i svacega... Kao sto dragvorl rece, najmasovnije su krenuli u US gde je dizel no no. Zatim, hibridi su vec dovoljno teski zbog baterija i elektro motora, ako u pricu ubacimo jos i dizel agregat onda stvar postaje jos gora. Razlika u radu i prelazima izmedju elekro/benzin i elektro/dizel je znatno uocljivija u drugoj varijanti, kad iskombinujete tihog benzinca sa elktro motorom promene mogu biti dosta neprimente, sa druge strane kod dizela to nije slucaj. Hibridi su iovako skupi, ubacivanjem dizela postaju jos skuplji. Razlika u potrosnji izmedju benzica hibrida i dizela hibrida nije velika, tj razlika je daleko manja nego izmedju cisto benzinskog i cisto dizelskog auta pa razlika u ceni opet nije opravdana. Smatram da je razlika u potrosnji mala jer je dosta drugaciji rad motora u hibridu i obicnom autu.
Pazi, ovo nije tacno, pouzdano ti kazem, a posto sam iz te struke, i pre svega znam ljude koji se bas bave energy storageom na najvisem nivou sigurno je tacno.NexT napisao:
Ubedjen sam da postoji tehnologija koja moze da napravi ono o cemu pricamo. Tj baterije sa vecim kapacitetima, itd., ali naftaski lobi je najjaci na svetu i to nije lose (ja volim naftu
Znaci nema naftaski lobi veze sa trenutnim kapacitetima baterija, oni su takvi kakvi su i danasnja tehnologija ne moze vise. Uostalom, proizvodjaci mobilnih telefona i laptopova muku muce sa trajanjem baterija stavljaju najbolje sto postoji ali bolje nema. Baterije po elektro/hibridnim vozilima su manje vise iste kao i u mobilnim telefonima.
Takodje ovde dolazimo do ogromnog problema o kome se jako malo prica. Ajd i da zanemarimo zagadjenje prilikom proizvodnje baterija, ogroman problem je reciklaza modernih baterija (dakle litiumskih). Za razliku od obicnih akumulatora gde imate olovo i kiselinu i gde se 99.9 posto sve lagano reciklira ovde je prica znatno drugacija. Kada baterija zavrsi svoj zivot dobijete neku zelatinastu masu koja je neverovatna kombinacija svih mogucih teskih metala i otrova, prakticno nemoguce za reciklazu, dakle gomila opasnog otpada. Takodje, ni litium nije materijal koga ima u neogranicenim oklicinama, masovna upotreba elektro vozila ne bi smanjila cenu baterija, znatno bi je povecala zbog cene litiuma, mada moram da priznam da ovde ima nekih oprecnih misljenja o dostupnosti litiuma.
Trenutno se dosta nade polaze u nove sisteme skladistenja energije pomocu vodonika ali pod niskim pritiskom. Danas je neophodno koristiti vodonik pod ekstremnim pritiscima sto stvara ogromne probleme (pre svega zbog zastite) ali ako bude moguce masovno koriscenje vodonika pri pritiscima od svega nekoliko bara to ce biti veliki pomak, kao sto rekoh ovo bi moglo da zazivi. Takodje sa vodonikom imas problem sto je na kraju iskoristivost celog procesa dosta niska, recimo oko 50% (dakle od pocetne energije koju ulazes za pravljenje vodonika do one koju oslobodis sagorevanjem vodonika ili pokretanjem auta na elektricni pogon na el energiju oslobodjenu u gorivnim celijama) sto je manje nego sa obicnim baterijama.
Ovaj pezoov hibrid je zapravo tragican. Bas sam citao o njemu pre dva meseca u EVO magazinu, poredili su 508 cist dizel i dizel hibrid. Osim sto je hibrid skoro pa upola skuplji, ima problema sa tezinom u krivinama i malo je iritantan za voznju u vecini testova, cist dizel je imao MANJU potrosnju od hibrida!!! Da li treba da naglasim da me ovo ni najmanje nije iznenadilo a sve sto su pisali u tekstu se apsolutno poklapalo sa onim sto sam ja pretpostavio da ce se desiti. Hibrid je po meni ok iskljucivo za grad, inace je besmislen.NexT napisao:
Moj idealan auto je zapravo vrlo blizu (samo da postanu malo laksi)
2.0 (ili jaci) dizel + minijaturan el. motor. (peugeot ima tako nesto). el motor da se koristi u guzvama, na parkingu itd., a da se vozi na obican dizel. Pri obilazenjima taj isti el motor daje dodatne Nm i snagu dizelu. Nista vise elektricno ili hibridno od toga ne zelim, a pogotovo ne zelim 2 tone tezak auto sa autonomijom od 300 kilometara, gde ce motor da sluzi kao agregat za napajanje elektro...
Re: Alternativni pogoni, sistemi i komponente
Laki, jako dobro objasnjenje iz prve ruke...nisam ni sumnjao da je tako a i sam nisam verovao u teorije zavere koje kazu da postoji baterija sa neogranicenom ili velikom autonomijom. Da je ima, sto i sam kazes, odavno bi neko trljao ruke i brojao lovu zbog toga, zapravo ako to nekad neko i smisli, zaradom koju ce ostvariti, moci ce da kupi naftaski lobi 
Sto se Priusa tice, na tu EKO foru su mogli da nahvataju glupe Amere, koji su tipican primer loseg odnosa coveka prema prirodi, sa njihovim V8 motorima koje performanasama odere jedan 1.6 japanac
Prijatelj ga je uzeo za taxi jer ima neke subvencije od grada zbog manje buke i emisje CO2 i kaze mi da u gradu stvarno malo trosi dok na autoputu trosi prilicno vise nego sto mu je trosio E220 cdi.
Hibridni dizel...hm, ne znam koliko je to dobra varijanta.
Grad je nabavio hibridne dizel gradske autobuse Volvo. Vozio sam se par puta i ne da se razlika u prebacivanju sa el. motora na dizel oseti, nego imas utisak da pri svakom kretanju pali na gurku
Elektro motor ga samo pokrene i posle 20m zavergla dizel i zatrese ceo bus...
Sto se Priusa tice, na tu EKO foru su mogli da nahvataju glupe Amere, koji su tipican primer loseg odnosa coveka prema prirodi, sa njihovim V8 motorima koje performanasama odere jedan 1.6 japanac
Prijatelj ga je uzeo za taxi jer ima neke subvencije od grada zbog manje buke i emisje CO2 i kaze mi da u gradu stvarno malo trosi dok na autoputu trosi prilicno vise nego sto mu je trosio E220 cdi.
Hibridni dizel...hm, ne znam koliko je to dobra varijanta.
Grad je nabavio hibridne dizel gradske autobuse Volvo. Vozio sam se par puta i ne da se razlika u prebacivanju sa el. motora na dizel oseti, nego imas utisak da pri svakom kretanju pali na gurku
Elektro motor ga samo pokrene i posle 20m zavergla dizel i zatrese ceo bus...
Re: Alternativni pogoni, sistemi i komponente
Ja kazem da je blizu, a ne da postojiLaki021 napisao:Ovaj pezoov hibrid je zapravo tragican. Bas sam citao o njemu pre dva meseca u EVO magazinu, poredili su 508 cist dizel i dizel hibrid. Osim sto je hibrid skoro pa upola skuplji, ima problema sa tezinom u krivinama i malo je iritantan za voznju u vecini testova, cist dizel je imao MANJU potrosnju od hibrida!!! Da li treba da naglasim da me ovo ni najmanje nije iznenadilo a sve sto su pisali u tekstu se apsolutno poklapalo sa onim sto sam ja pretpostavio da ce se desiti. Hibrid je po meni ok iskljucivo za grad, inace je besmislen.NexT napisao:
Moj idealan auto je zapravo vrlo blizu (samo da postanu malo laksi)
2.0 (ili jaci) dizel + minijaturan el. motor. (peugeot ima tako nesto). el motor da se koristi u guzvama, na parkingu itd., a da se vozi na obican dizel. Pri obilazenjima taj isti el motor daje dodatne Nm i snagu dizelu. Nista vise elektricno ili hibridno od toga ne zelim, a pogotovo ne zelim 2 tone tezak auto sa autonomijom od 300 kilometara, gde ce motor da sluzi kao agregat za napajanje elektro...
I pritom, ne mislim na to kako ja zelim da mi auto trosi 0 litara itd, nego jednostavno nekad me smara da palim auto, da bih ga pomerio 5 metara xD I lepo rekoh da je i dalje pretezak
Zapravo, cela ta prica oko hibrida u tom autu po meni pije vodu dok se vozi 15 na sat, ili ni ne stignes do tih 15 na sat, a vec moras da kocis u guzvi. Cim moze normalno da se vozi, dovoljan mi je samo dizel.
Re: Alternativni pogoni, sistemi i komponente
Poduži tekst o tome zašto Chevrolet Volt nije isplativ.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/ ... 4J20120910
Ili ukoliko želite kraću verziju, pogledajte dole
GM Is Losing Thousands Of Dollars On Every Volt Built
The Chevy Volt is a pioneering car, but it has also received a lot of flack. It hasn't helped that it has caught on fire a couple times and been scapegoated by the media as the poster child of the automotive bailouts.
Supposedly, taxpayers were losing tons of money on the car. But apparently, someone else actually is: General Motors.
Each Volt sells in the $40,000 range once it reaches consumer's hands. However, new estimates just came out for what it costs to build one, and Reuters says it isn't close to cheap.
Apparently, if you take development, tooling, and production costs into account, each car costs GM between $80,000 and $88,000 to build. You math majors out there will be quick to point out that each car is a loss of at least $40,000.
A big issue is that GM isn't meeting sales targets, which has resulted in production suspensions and super cheap pricing. That isn't helping to make the car any cheaper to build. GM knows they aren't making any money, but they say that they are in for the long haul with the Volt.
It took Toyota a while to start making money with the Prius, so if Chevy can hold out, the Volt could do the same for them in the years to come.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/ ... 4J20120910
Ili ukoliko želite kraću verziju, pogledajte dole
GM Is Losing Thousands Of Dollars On Every Volt Built
The Chevy Volt is a pioneering car, but it has also received a lot of flack. It hasn't helped that it has caught on fire a couple times and been scapegoated by the media as the poster child of the automotive bailouts.
Supposedly, taxpayers were losing tons of money on the car. But apparently, someone else actually is: General Motors.
Each Volt sells in the $40,000 range once it reaches consumer's hands. However, new estimates just came out for what it costs to build one, and Reuters says it isn't close to cheap.
Apparently, if you take development, tooling, and production costs into account, each car costs GM between $80,000 and $88,000 to build. You math majors out there will be quick to point out that each car is a loss of at least $40,000.
A big issue is that GM isn't meeting sales targets, which has resulted in production suspensions and super cheap pricing. That isn't helping to make the car any cheaper to build. GM knows they aren't making any money, but they say that they are in for the long haul with the Volt.
It took Toyota a while to start making money with the Prius, so if Chevy can hold out, the Volt could do the same for them in the years to come.
Najgore je svađati se sa budalom. Prvo te spusti na svoj nivo, a onda te dotuče iskustvom...
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dragvorl
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Re: Alternativni pogoni, sistemi i komponente
Gorivo od mulja iz kanalizacije. Ali opet treba neka vrsta destilacije.
Sewage sludge: Next alternative energy?
TOKYO -- A group of Japanese companies is developing what might be the ultimate in reusable alternative energy for vehicles.
The idea: Turn sewage sludge into hydrogen for use in fuel cell vehicles. The consortium started testing the method this week.
Japan’s Nikkei business daily says getting hydrogen from sewage is cheaper and cleaner than the traditional method of generating it from liquefied natural gas or other fossil fuels.
It cuts carbon emissions 75 percent, the Nikkei says.
Cooperating on the project are Toyota Motor Corp. affiliate Toyota Tsusho Corp., Mitsui Chemicals Inc., Daiwa Lease Co. and Japan Blue Energy Co. They want to commercialize it by 2015.
The process involves drying the sludge in multiple steps. First, methane is generated. Then, the methane is reheated to cook out a high concentration of hydrogen gas.
The process is envisioned as a source of hydrogen for use in fuel cell vehicles. Many automakers, including Toyota and Honda, are planning new fuel cell vehicles in the coming years.
The cars are seen as a boon to fighting carbon emissions because they convert hydrogen into electricity, while emitting only water vapor. But getting the initial hydrogen can be expensive and complicated.
The Japanese are betting that human waste holds a breakthrough.
Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/2012091 ... z26HrRsJBm
Sewage sludge: Next alternative energy?
TOKYO -- A group of Japanese companies is developing what might be the ultimate in reusable alternative energy for vehicles.
The idea: Turn sewage sludge into hydrogen for use in fuel cell vehicles. The consortium started testing the method this week.
Japan’s Nikkei business daily says getting hydrogen from sewage is cheaper and cleaner than the traditional method of generating it from liquefied natural gas or other fossil fuels.
It cuts carbon emissions 75 percent, the Nikkei says.
Cooperating on the project are Toyota Motor Corp. affiliate Toyota Tsusho Corp., Mitsui Chemicals Inc., Daiwa Lease Co. and Japan Blue Energy Co. They want to commercialize it by 2015.
The process involves drying the sludge in multiple steps. First, methane is generated. Then, the methane is reheated to cook out a high concentration of hydrogen gas.
The process is envisioned as a source of hydrogen for use in fuel cell vehicles. Many automakers, including Toyota and Honda, are planning new fuel cell vehicles in the coming years.
The cars are seen as a boon to fighting carbon emissions because they convert hydrogen into electricity, while emitting only water vapor. But getting the initial hydrogen can be expensive and complicated.
The Japanese are betting that human waste holds a breakthrough.
Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/2012091 ... z26HrRsJBm
Mauro Forghieri:"Power comes from speed, torque without speed is nothing"
Life is funny, skies are sunny, Bees make honey, who needs money
Re: Alternativni pogoni, sistemi i komponente
:trljamoci:
Izgleda da ce u novim Toyotama moci samo da se
u rezervoar i vozi
Izgleda da ce u novim Toyotama moci samo da se
u rezervoar i vozi -
methane.master
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Re: Alternativni pogoni, sistemi i komponente
U skladu sa userom, već godinama pričam da ćemo se tako voziti/grejati/dobijati struju...
Širim haos!
Re: Alternativni pogoni, sistemi i komponente
Lithium Extracted from Salt Water May Bring Cost of Batteries Down
Lithium, the lightest metal known to man, is the key ‘ingredient’ in all modern EV and hybrid vehicle battery packs, and with demand on the rise, its price has increased by 35% over the last 18 months. With demand for lithium-ion batteries expected to double in the next eight years, feasible lower cost solutions need to be found as quickly as possible.
Now, a company based in Pleasanton, California, called Simbol Materials say they may have the answer. Their idea is to capture lithium from salt water evaporation, and their planned plant near the Mexican border would reportedly cut costs considerably. They plan to produce about 8,000 tons a year at first, rising to 64,000 tons by 2020, which equates to 21% of the current global demand.
The key aspect here is Simbol Materials technology which reportedly cuts the time needed to gather Lithium from evaporating salt water, from the 18 months it usually takes, to a much more reasonable two hours. With the number of EVs and hybrids projected to increase in coming years, reaching 3.9-million annual hybrid sales, 1.4-million plug-in hybrid sales, as well as 2.8-million all-electric vehicle sales by 2020, the situation is a delicate one, to say the least.
Lithium, the lightest metal known to man, is the key ‘ingredient’ in all modern EV and hybrid vehicle battery packs, and with demand on the rise, its price has increased by 35% over the last 18 months. With demand for lithium-ion batteries expected to double in the next eight years, feasible lower cost solutions need to be found as quickly as possible.
Now, a company based in Pleasanton, California, called Simbol Materials say they may have the answer. Their idea is to capture lithium from salt water evaporation, and their planned plant near the Mexican border would reportedly cut costs considerably. They plan to produce about 8,000 tons a year at first, rising to 64,000 tons by 2020, which equates to 21% of the current global demand.
The key aspect here is Simbol Materials technology which reportedly cuts the time needed to gather Lithium from evaporating salt water, from the 18 months it usually takes, to a much more reasonable two hours. With the number of EVs and hybrids projected to increase in coming years, reaching 3.9-million annual hybrid sales, 1.4-million plug-in hybrid sales, as well as 2.8-million all-electric vehicle sales by 2020, the situation is a delicate one, to say the least.
Najgore je svađati se sa budalom. Prvo te spusti na svoj nivo, a onda te dotuče iskustvom...
Re: Alternativni pogoni, sistemi i komponente
DENSO Develops Lithium-ion Battery Pack for Stop/Start System
Further increases fuel efficiency on vehicles with stop/start ?
KARIYA, Japan, Oct. 3, 2012 /PRNewswire/ -- DENSO Corporation has developed a lithium-ion battery pack that further increases the fuel efficiency of vehicles with stop/start systems. DENSO's new battery pack allows the stop/start system to use more regenerative power than current conventional systems that use a single lead-acid battery. DENSO's battery pack consists of a battery management unit and power supply control switch, as well as battery cells that are provided by a third-party source.
Improved Fuel Economy:
DENSO's new lithium-ion battery pack stores regenerated power and then supplies the stored regenerated power to the electrical and electronic components, such as the car navigation and audio systems. This reduces the power generation required by the alternator, which results in an overall load reduction on the engine and improves the vehicle's fuel economy.
Compact and Lightweight Battery Allowing for Increased OE Design Flexibility
The new battery pack is naturally air-cooled and therefore does not require a dedicated cooling system. Because there is no need for auxiliary cooling components, this allows the battery to be lighter and more compact. This enables automakers more packaging design flexibility, which is important for vehicles with limited space.
DENSO Stop/Start Available Technology
DENSO has developed different types of starters to meet the specific needs of its customers for their stop/start systems, including the Advanced Engagement (AE) Starter, Permanently Engaged (PE) Starter, and Tandem Solenoid (TS) Starter. Also, DENSO developed a Cold Storage (CS) Evaporator which increases the effectiveness of idle-stop, particularly at high temperatures. DENSO supplies the lithium ion battery pack, the TS starter and Cold Storage Evaporator on the Suzuki Wagon R, which Suzuki Motor Corporation launched to market earlier this month. DENSO will continue its efforts to expand these technologies to other automakers and other regions in the world.
About the Battery Pack Components
1. DENSO Battery management unit
DENSO Battery Management Unit monitors and controls the voltage of the lithium-ion battery cells to maintain the proper charge level to protect them from overcharge and over-discharge.
2. Power supply control switch
Depending on the operational status of the vehicle, this device controls the charging of the battery cells by the energy captured during deceleration and braking. It also controls the amount of power supplied to the car navigation, audio, and other systems during driving.
3. Battery cells
High-power rechargeable lithium-ion battery cells, which have a higher energy density and charge more quickly than lead-acid batteries, can efficiently store more regenerated power quickly to vehicle's electronic and electrical components.
* Dimensions: 200 x 178 x 70 mm (length x width x height)
Weight: 2.5 kg
- Shortens Waiting Time when Restarting the Engine -
Kariya (Japan) - When it comes to stop/start engines, engine restart times are critical to the driver's piece-of-mind. DENSO Corporation has developed a new starter, Tandem Solenoid (TS) starter, which shaves up to 1.5 seconds off the restart time when restarting the engine, compared to the company's previous models. DENSO's new starter, designed specifically for stop/start systems, uses the world's first mechanism to separately control the forward shift of the pinion gear and the motor rotation, which allows for a quicker restart.
"With the new starter, the pinion gear shift and motor rotation can be separately controlled depending on the engine speed, and the engine can restart while it is still rotating. This shortens the waiting time when restarting and allows for a smoother engine feel at start-up," said Masahiko Miyaki, senior executive director of DENSO's Electric Systems Business Group.
To start the engine, starters shift the pinion gear forward to mesh with the engine ring gear to transmit the rotational force of the starter motor through the pinion gear. The conventional stop/start system starter, which has a mechanism that conjunctionally shifts the pinion gear and energizes the motor for rotation, is not capable of restarting when the engine is rotating - or while the engine is coasting after the vehicle is stopped. Because of this lag time, it is possible the driver may wait up to 1.5 seconds when restarting the engine after the engine is stopped.
With the TS starter, if the engine is rotating fast, the motor is first energized to increase the pinion gear speed and then the pinion gear is shifted forward when the rotation of the ring gear and pinion gear are close. When the engine is turning slowly enough for the two gears to be connected, the pinion gear is first moved forward, and then the motor is powered.
To help improve fuel efficiency and reduce CO2 emissions, stop/start systems automatically stop the engine while the vehicle is waiting at stop lights or is stopped for other reasons. Demand for stop/start systems is expected to grow as fuel economy requirements and CO2 emissions regulations become more stringent.
Tandem Solenoid (TS) Starter
Further increases fuel efficiency on vehicles with stop/start ?
KARIYA, Japan, Oct. 3, 2012 /PRNewswire/ -- DENSO Corporation has developed a lithium-ion battery pack that further increases the fuel efficiency of vehicles with stop/start systems. DENSO's new battery pack allows the stop/start system to use more regenerative power than current conventional systems that use a single lead-acid battery. DENSO's battery pack consists of a battery management unit and power supply control switch, as well as battery cells that are provided by a third-party source.
Improved Fuel Economy:
DENSO's new lithium-ion battery pack stores regenerated power and then supplies the stored regenerated power to the electrical and electronic components, such as the car navigation and audio systems. This reduces the power generation required by the alternator, which results in an overall load reduction on the engine and improves the vehicle's fuel economy.
Compact and Lightweight Battery Allowing for Increased OE Design Flexibility
The new battery pack is naturally air-cooled and therefore does not require a dedicated cooling system. Because there is no need for auxiliary cooling components, this allows the battery to be lighter and more compact. This enables automakers more packaging design flexibility, which is important for vehicles with limited space.
DENSO Stop/Start Available Technology
DENSO has developed different types of starters to meet the specific needs of its customers for their stop/start systems, including the Advanced Engagement (AE) Starter, Permanently Engaged (PE) Starter, and Tandem Solenoid (TS) Starter. Also, DENSO developed a Cold Storage (CS) Evaporator which increases the effectiveness of idle-stop, particularly at high temperatures. DENSO supplies the lithium ion battery pack, the TS starter and Cold Storage Evaporator on the Suzuki Wagon R, which Suzuki Motor Corporation launched to market earlier this month. DENSO will continue its efforts to expand these technologies to other automakers and other regions in the world.
About the Battery Pack Components
1. DENSO Battery management unit
DENSO Battery Management Unit monitors and controls the voltage of the lithium-ion battery cells to maintain the proper charge level to protect them from overcharge and over-discharge.
2. Power supply control switch
Depending on the operational status of the vehicle, this device controls the charging of the battery cells by the energy captured during deceleration and braking. It also controls the amount of power supplied to the car navigation, audio, and other systems during driving.
3. Battery cells
High-power rechargeable lithium-ion battery cells, which have a higher energy density and charge more quickly than lead-acid batteries, can efficiently store more regenerated power quickly to vehicle's electronic and electrical components.
* Dimensions: 200 x 178 x 70 mm (length x width x height)
Weight: 2.5 kg
- Shortens Waiting Time when Restarting the Engine -
Kariya (Japan) - When it comes to stop/start engines, engine restart times are critical to the driver's piece-of-mind. DENSO Corporation has developed a new starter, Tandem Solenoid (TS) starter, which shaves up to 1.5 seconds off the restart time when restarting the engine, compared to the company's previous models. DENSO's new starter, designed specifically for stop/start systems, uses the world's first mechanism to separately control the forward shift of the pinion gear and the motor rotation, which allows for a quicker restart.
"With the new starter, the pinion gear shift and motor rotation can be separately controlled depending on the engine speed, and the engine can restart while it is still rotating. This shortens the waiting time when restarting and allows for a smoother engine feel at start-up," said Masahiko Miyaki, senior executive director of DENSO's Electric Systems Business Group.
To start the engine, starters shift the pinion gear forward to mesh with the engine ring gear to transmit the rotational force of the starter motor through the pinion gear. The conventional stop/start system starter, which has a mechanism that conjunctionally shifts the pinion gear and energizes the motor for rotation, is not capable of restarting when the engine is rotating - or while the engine is coasting after the vehicle is stopped. Because of this lag time, it is possible the driver may wait up to 1.5 seconds when restarting the engine after the engine is stopped.
With the TS starter, if the engine is rotating fast, the motor is first energized to increase the pinion gear speed and then the pinion gear is shifted forward when the rotation of the ring gear and pinion gear are close. When the engine is turning slowly enough for the two gears to be connected, the pinion gear is first moved forward, and then the motor is powered.
To help improve fuel efficiency and reduce CO2 emissions, stop/start systems automatically stop the engine while the vehicle is waiting at stop lights or is stopped for other reasons. Demand for stop/start systems is expected to grow as fuel economy requirements and CO2 emissions regulations become more stringent.
Tandem Solenoid (TS) Starter
Najgore je svađati se sa budalom. Prvo te spusti na svoj nivo, a onda te dotuče iskustvom...
Re: Alternativni pogoni, sistemi i komponente
Da, da, lepo sto su naveli koliko to cudo kosta u odnosu na "convetional starter" sa kojim se toliko porede.
Kao i uvek, problem referentnog uredjaja je preuvelican.
Kao i uvek, problem referentnog uredjaja je preuvelican.
-
dragvorl
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Re: Alternativni pogoni, sistemi i komponente
Electric cars 'pose environmental threat'
Electric cars might pollute much more than petrol or diesel-powered cars, according to new research.
The Norwegian University of Science and Technology study found greenhouse gas emissions rose dramatically if coal was used to produce the electricity.
Electric car factories also emitted more toxic waste than conventional car factories, their report in the Journal of Industrial Ecology said.
However, in some cases electric cars still made sense, the researchers said.
Big impact
The team looked at the life-cycle impact of conventional and electric vehicles.
In essence, they considered how the production, the use and the end-of-life dismantling of a car affects the environment, explained co-author Prof Anders Hammer Stromman.
"The production phase of electric vehicles proved substantially more environmentally intensive," the report said, comparing it to how petrol and diesel cars are made.
"The global warming potential from electric vehicle production is about twice that of conventional vehicles."
In addition, producing batteries and electric motors requires a lot of toxic minerals such as nickel, copper and aluminium.
Hence, the acidification impact is much greater than that of conventional car production.
"Across the other impacts considered in the analysis including potential for effects related to acid rain, airborne particulate matter, smog, human toxicity, ecosystem toxicity and depletion of fossil fuel and mineral resources, electric vehicles consistently perform worse or on par with modern internal combustion engine vehicles, despite virtually zero direct emissions during operation," according to Prof Stromman.
'Counterproductive' efforts
With electric car production being so damaging to the environment, these cars have already polluted a great deal by the time they hit the road, the report says.
However, if the cars were then powered by electricity made from low-carbon electricity sources, they could nevertheless offer "the potential for substantial reductions in greenhouse gas emissions and exposure to tailpipe emissions" over time.
However, in regions where fossil fuels are the main sources of power, electric cars offer no benefits and may even cause more harm, the report said.
"It is counterproductive to promote electric vehicles in regions where electricity is primarily produced from lignite, coal or even heavy oil combustion."
European benefits
In Europe, where electricity is produced in a number of different ways, electric cars do offer environmental benefits when compared with cars with internal combustion engines, according to the study.
"Electric vehicles powered by the present European electricity mix offer a 10% to 24% decrease in their global warming potential relative to conventional diesel or petrol vehicles."
This is in line with calculations made by some carmakers.
"According to our results, a battery electric vehicle, with electricity produced by the power generation mix we currently have in Europe, compares favourably in the magnitude of 10% or so with diesel," Daimler's chief executive Dieter Zetsche told the BBC.
Longer lives
The report pointed out that the longer an electric car in Europe stays mobile, the greater its "lead" over petrol and diesel engines.
"Assuming a vehicle lifetime of 200,000km exaggerates the global warming benefits of electric vehicles to 27-29% relative to petrol and 17-20% relative to diesel," it said.
"An assumption of 100,000km decreases the benefit of electric vehicles to 9-14% with respect to petrol vehicles and results in impacts indistinguishable from those of a diesel vehicle."
An electric car's longevity depends a great deal on how long its battery lasts, not least since it is very expensive to replace them.
Batteries are gradually getting better, which could result in electric cars being used for longer.
However, as petrol and diesel engines are also improving, the relationships between the different types of vehicles are not constant.
"A more significant reduction in global warming could potentially be achieved by increasing fuel efficiency or shifting from petrol to diesel," the report said.
"If you are considering purchasing an electric vehicle for its environmental benefits, first check your electricity source and second look closely at the warranty on the batteries," said Professor Stromman.
Those in power, meanwhile, should recognise "the many potential advantages of electric vehicles [which] should serve as a motivation for cleaning up regional electricity mixes".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19830232
Electric cars might pollute much more than petrol or diesel-powered cars, according to new research.
The Norwegian University of Science and Technology study found greenhouse gas emissions rose dramatically if coal was used to produce the electricity.
Electric car factories also emitted more toxic waste than conventional car factories, their report in the Journal of Industrial Ecology said.
However, in some cases electric cars still made sense, the researchers said.
Big impact
The team looked at the life-cycle impact of conventional and electric vehicles.
In essence, they considered how the production, the use and the end-of-life dismantling of a car affects the environment, explained co-author Prof Anders Hammer Stromman.
"The production phase of electric vehicles proved substantially more environmentally intensive," the report said, comparing it to how petrol and diesel cars are made.
"The global warming potential from electric vehicle production is about twice that of conventional vehicles."
In addition, producing batteries and electric motors requires a lot of toxic minerals such as nickel, copper and aluminium.
Hence, the acidification impact is much greater than that of conventional car production.
"Across the other impacts considered in the analysis including potential for effects related to acid rain, airborne particulate matter, smog, human toxicity, ecosystem toxicity and depletion of fossil fuel and mineral resources, electric vehicles consistently perform worse or on par with modern internal combustion engine vehicles, despite virtually zero direct emissions during operation," according to Prof Stromman.
'Counterproductive' efforts
With electric car production being so damaging to the environment, these cars have already polluted a great deal by the time they hit the road, the report says.
However, if the cars were then powered by electricity made from low-carbon electricity sources, they could nevertheless offer "the potential for substantial reductions in greenhouse gas emissions and exposure to tailpipe emissions" over time.
However, in regions where fossil fuels are the main sources of power, electric cars offer no benefits and may even cause more harm, the report said.
"It is counterproductive to promote electric vehicles in regions where electricity is primarily produced from lignite, coal or even heavy oil combustion."
European benefits
In Europe, where electricity is produced in a number of different ways, electric cars do offer environmental benefits when compared with cars with internal combustion engines, according to the study.
"Electric vehicles powered by the present European electricity mix offer a 10% to 24% decrease in their global warming potential relative to conventional diesel or petrol vehicles."
This is in line with calculations made by some carmakers.
"According to our results, a battery electric vehicle, with electricity produced by the power generation mix we currently have in Europe, compares favourably in the magnitude of 10% or so with diesel," Daimler's chief executive Dieter Zetsche told the BBC.
Longer lives
The report pointed out that the longer an electric car in Europe stays mobile, the greater its "lead" over petrol and diesel engines.
"Assuming a vehicle lifetime of 200,000km exaggerates the global warming benefits of electric vehicles to 27-29% relative to petrol and 17-20% relative to diesel," it said.
"An assumption of 100,000km decreases the benefit of electric vehicles to 9-14% with respect to petrol vehicles and results in impacts indistinguishable from those of a diesel vehicle."
An electric car's longevity depends a great deal on how long its battery lasts, not least since it is very expensive to replace them.
Batteries are gradually getting better, which could result in electric cars being used for longer.
However, as petrol and diesel engines are also improving, the relationships between the different types of vehicles are not constant.
"A more significant reduction in global warming could potentially be achieved by increasing fuel efficiency or shifting from petrol to diesel," the report said.
"If you are considering purchasing an electric vehicle for its environmental benefits, first check your electricity source and second look closely at the warranty on the batteries," said Professor Stromman.
Those in power, meanwhile, should recognise "the many potential advantages of electric vehicles [which] should serve as a motivation for cleaning up regional electricity mixes".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19830232
Mauro Forghieri:"Power comes from speed, torque without speed is nothing"
Life is funny, skies are sunny, Bees make honey, who needs money
Re: Alternativni pogoni, sistemi i komponente
Ehh...
Ovde dolazi ono sto sam ja pricao jos pre minimum 2 godine, da Hummer 2 manje zagadjuje od Priusa
Ljudi su glupi i neobrazovani/neobavesteni i jedini izvor informacija im je ono sto im industrija plasira...
Struja nikada nije i nikada nece biti resenje...
Neobrazovanom coveku mozes i g**no prodati,samo da smislis spiku...
Ovde dolazi ono sto sam ja pricao jos pre minimum 2 godine, da Hummer 2 manje zagadjuje od Priusa
Ljudi su glupi i neobrazovani/neobavesteni i jedini izvor informacija im je ono sto im industrija plasira...
Struja nikada nije i nikada nece biti resenje...
Neobrazovanom coveku mozes i g**no prodati,samo da smislis spiku...
Veče u kome se svi slazu je protraceno.
Prvi znak gluposti je potpuno odsustvo stida.
Prvi znak gluposti je potpuno odsustvo stida.
Re: Alternativni pogoni, sistemi i komponente
Niko to ne kupuje zato sto je ekoloski proizvod nego zbog subvencija drzave i manje potrosnje 
Ono jeste da ce neko onako usput da kaze da je npr. Priusa kupio zato sto malo zagadjuje ali realno, sumnjam da nekog iskreno zabole za ekologiju...
Istina, postoji mali broj ljudi koji imaju svest o ekologiji (zeleni) ali veruj mi da oni nisu neobrazovani...ovde znam neke i mogu da ti kazem da koriste biciklu kad god je to moguce a u ostalim slucajevima (kad putuju daleko) voz.
Ono jeste da ce neko onako usput da kaze da je npr. Priusa kupio zato sto malo zagadjuje ali realno, sumnjam da nekog iskreno zabole za ekologiju...
Istina, postoji mali broj ljudi koji imaju svest o ekologiji (zeleni) ali veruj mi da oni nisu neobrazovani...ovde znam neke i mogu da ti kazem da koriste biciklu kad god je to moguce a u ostalim slucajevima (kad putuju daleko) voz.
