Plate i životni standard u razvijenim zemljama

[ljuba]

Evo ovde sam nasao neke delove: http://sluggerotoole.com/2017/03/01/eu- ... to-remain/

[Floyd]

Nemam ni ja pretplatu...

Ne mogu da zakačim SC. Sjebe ga Tapatalk.

Copy paste kasnije.

[Puzo81]

Drugar i jos petorica (zdravstvo) bili 7 dana na testiranju u Nemackoj (Minhen, Stutgart, Drezden..., gerontoloski, hitne...). Svi zadovoljili i potpisuju ugovore, 2300-2500e zaboravih pitati neto ili bruto.
Posle 3-5 meseci mogu da povuku porodice.

Kaze drugar nasi i njihovi uslovi nebo i zemlja.

[Geza]

Copy/paste za one bez pretplate...

EU citizens face 85-page ‘nightmare’ Brexit Britain form

Foreigners living in UK left in ‘limbo’ by onerous red tape for residence

Sebastian Derwisinski and his wife Malgorzata spent two weeks completing the forms to obtain their UK residence documents

With a masters degree in economics and five years working in London’s financial services industry, Marek felt confident when he sat down on a Sunday evening in August to tackle the UK’s application for permanent residence.

But like many others, he was soon frustrated — and ultimately defeated — by an 85-page document that has become the bane of many foreigners living in Brexit Britain.

“I come from a country that very much has its level of bureaucracy, but this is tops,” said Marek, a Polish expatriate who declined to use his real name because of concerns about his immigration status. “You see a form like this, you see this list of documentation, and it’s nothing but hostile.”

EU membership has for decades guaranteed the bloc’s citizens the right to live and work in Britain. But with that set to end after the UK voted in June to leave the EU, permanent residency is a legal lifeline that many of the 3m Europeans living in Britain are reaching for.

It re-establishes those same rights under UK law. It is also a prerequisite to apply for British citizenship. Short of that, many panicky applicants seem to believe such status will at least put them at the head of the queue for a work permit or some other legal protection after the UK leaves the bloc.

There are 85 pages to fill in and they ask the same thing over and over again but in a way you never know what the right answer is
Marta Grabinska

“[They] think they will be more secure having this document, whatever happens after Brexit,” explained Dana Jozefkowicz, an immigration adviser at the East European Resource Centre in London.

Kamal Rahman, an immigration lawyer at Mishcon de Reya, who tends to work with wealthy individuals and finance executives, said she had seen “a huge rush” of applicants: “We have been inundated with people who previously wouldn’t have even thought of permanent residency but now feel obliged to get it.”

But doing so means confronting an onerous application and overstretched bureaucracy that is heaping frustration — and hefty legal fees — on many long-time UK residents.

“There are 85 pages to fill in and they ask the same thing over and over again but in a way you never know what the right answer is,” complained Marta Grabinska, who has been waiting six months for a reply.

Ms Jozefkowicz, who estimated she spends about two weeks preparing each application, agreed it was “quite confusing”, adding: “For somebody who speaks little English it’s impossible.”
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The resource centre charges just £50 beyond the £65 application fee for each family member. Private lawyers and a growing rank of informal “advisers” are charging immigrants anywhere from £200 to £1,000. Anger over such costs has prompted an online petition with more than 26,000 signatures.

For some professionals, no amount of money is worth the aggravation. “When someone asks me for help with this I don’t even mention the price — I just say ‘no’ because I know this is going to be a nightmare,” said Sebastian Derwisinski, a Pole who owns a Northampton accountancy firm, Renaissance The Partners, with his wife Malgorzata.

They spent two weeks preparing their own permanent residency application right after the June referendum. “That was the trigger,” he recalled. “We wanted to make sure everything would be smooth after Brexit.”

The application, whose guidance notes alone run to 18 pages, was only instituted in late 2015. Before that, an EU national was simply deemed a permanent resident after five years living continuously in the UK.
Instructions for the form say applicants must provide bank statements, invoices and receipts to prove that they have been self-employed

It is so taxing, say lawyers, because of the copious evidence required to prove that a person has been living and working in the UK for the past five years, and also establish their family relations.

Applicants must, for example, document every time they have left the UK — a record no longer included in many passports because of the EU’s free movement of people. The Home Office also requests a variety of documents spread evenly across the five years to prove employment, including payslips, letters from employers, employment contracts and the like.

“If you come over here and work in the informal economy it can be very hard to establish these things,” said Markus Malik, managing partner of Adams Solicitors, which charges £800 to £1,000 to prepare a permanent residency application. It can also be difficult to prove residency for a stay-at-home spouse, even one that has lived in the UK for many years.
Applicants must list their health insurance, but the form reveals how complex that can be

Lawyers said the Home Office had become more rigid in the way it evaluated such applications. If so, that may be because it is swamped: applications for UK residency documents from EU nationals almost tripled in the quarter after the referendum compared with the same period a year earlier. Waiting times are running at four months or more, during which time many applicants sacrifice their passports. “You really are in the hands of the gods,” said Azra Malik, an Adams partner.

The Home Office said no applicant was required to complete all 85 pages, and that it was working to make the process “quicker and easier”. Many EU nationals can apply online. “European citizens resident in the UK make a vital contribution both to our economy and our society. That’s why we will be making securing their status, as well as that of British nationals in the EU, a priority” in the exit negotiations, an official said.
Related article
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Reassurance needed on post-Brexit access to EU workforce, says lobby group
Thursday, 2 March, 2017

That may offer some consolation for Marek, who has worked in the UK for six years and assembled “kilos” of supporting documents when he began his permanent residence application. Only midway through did he realise an EU citizen could be disqualified if they failed to purchase “comprehensive sickness insurance” while studying or unemployed during their time in the UK.

In 2014, he was out of work for about six months, although he insists he did not claim benefits. “Nobody told me I needed a comprehensive sickness insurance,” he fumed. “I would be happy to pay for it if anybody gave me the bloody account number!”

A lawyer told him he must wait until 2019 to reapply for permanent residence and even then he is not sure he will be approved. “What can we do?” he said. “Everyone’s in a bit of limbo.”

Napomena za zaključane tekstove sa recimo FT, kopirajte link, bacite u Google i klik na keširano.

[kragujevac]

o)7 ana na testiranju u Nemackoj (Minhen, Stutgart, Drezden..., gerontoloski, hitne...). Svi zadovoljili i potpisuju ugovore, 2300-2500e zaboravih pitati neto ili bruto.
Kaze drugar nasi i njihovi uslovi nebo i zemlja.

Kada se u Nemačkoj govori o zaradi, ona se UVEK navodi u bruto iznosu. Od te sume se odbija porez, zdravstveno, penzijsko, Soli- odbitak, crkveni porez ( koji se naravno ne skida onima koji nisu katolici ili evangelisti), i još ponešto. Dodaci na platu su sati koji se rade nedeljom, praznikom i noću ( na njih ne ide porez).
2500€ nije velika plata, pogotovu ako će da stanuju u Minhenu, Stuttgartu, Frankfurtu, i nekim mondenskijim ćoškovima tipa Bodensko jezero i tome slično.
Dresden je već jeftiniji, ali to je banana-teritorija. Ja tu ne bih voleo da živim i radim.
Plata od 2500€ brutto je oko 1550-1600€ netto( poreska grupa 1). Sa tom sumom može da se progura mesec, ali nije nešto ultraextra. Kad bračni drug dobije boravak u D, onda onaj koji radi uzme poresku grupu 3, pa su mu odbici na platu manji (tj. plata je na taj brutto oko 300€ veća). Bolje je to nego u SRB, ali još nije idealno.
Rad u staračkim domovima i patronaži je IZUZETNO naporan, kako fizički tako i psihički. Jedino što je dobro što uvek ima posla.
Malo je bolje ako bolnica ima svoje stanove, oni su jeftiniji.
Spajanje porodice niie baš tako glatko kao što mnogi misle, jer da bi bračni drug dobio boravišnu vizu mora da ima dokaz da zna nemački (mislim da je A2 nivo dovoljan, ali nisam siguran).Da bi deca dobila dečji dodatak, moraju da budu prijavljena u D, a ako su školskog uzrasta moraju da pohadjaju školu, inače nema dečijeg dodatka.

[TheWickerMan]

A2 je dovoljan za bračnog druga za DE, to jeste. Minhen je skup za stanove baš, gledao sam cene, čak ni okolina tipa Frajzinga nije jeftina. Obevezno je plaćanje TV pretplate ( 17 evra ), gledao ti TV ili ne

[passenger]

21 chf mesečno + 450 chf godišnje u CH, gledao ti ili ne

[Puzo81]

Znači bruto.
Supruga mu je takođe zdravstveni radnik(oboje su paralelno ucili nemački), sin 3godine. Ako i ona počne raditi u struci mislim bice im ok. Stuttgart je u pitanju.

Od 2300bruto neto posle tih zajebancija ispadne otprilike?


U pravu ste za stanove, drugar sa devojkom u Minhenu placa 850-900 garsonjeru. Kolega u Oberndorfu, negde od Stuttgarta 70ak km 600-650e sprat kuce ali ono je kao Vojvodjansko selo (sem sto je skakaonica aktuelna svake godine).

[kragujevac]

A2 je dovoljan za bračnog druga za DE, to jeste. Minhen je skup za stanove baš, gledao sam cene, čak ni okolina tipa Frajzinga nije jeftina. Obevezno je plaćanje TV pretplate ( 17 evra ), gledao ti TV ili ne

Minhen je bezobrazno skup, sve oko Minhena je skupo, tv se skida tromesečno, ima i nekoliko osiguranja koja je poželjno imati, ona mogu mesečno da budu zajedno 20-30€.

Na 2300€ brutto u Baden Würtenbergu meni online daje 1568€ netto sa poreskom grupom 1. Pošto su oni venčani i oboje imaju slične plate, najlogičnije je da oboje uzmu poresku grupu 4, pa da na kraju godine predaju za povratak poreza. Sa grupom 4 je plata skoro ista kao sa 1. Za dete dobijaju 192€ dečjeg dodatka( moraju da predaju papire, naravno, i koliko god da traje rešenje zahteva, nema veze, jer će dobiti retroaktivno od prvog datuma koji stoji na dozvoli boravka.

[TheWickerMan]

Nešto mi pričaju da će da me bace u Minhen, jedino zbog stana ne bi voleo da idem tamo. Inače ne bi imao problema

Od 2300bruto neto posle tih zajebancija ispadne otprilike?

Ne znam da li ima veze sa strukom (neoženjen ), u mom slučaju je od 2030 Evra bruto, neto ostaje 1440 Evra(oženjeni kojima je bračni drug u DE imaju 1640 Evra). Na 2200 Evra imaće 1550/1750 Evra ( 1750 kad je bračni drug tamo ) . Ovo su porezi za elektro struku, ne znam da li se nešto menja kad je druga struka u pitanju.

[kragujevac]

Porez je porez i nema veze sa strukom. Nije ni Minhen problem ako bolnica ima svoje stanove/apartmane. Veliki broj bolnica ih ima, onda je i stanarina podnošljivija.
S druge strane, Minhen ima i puno pozitivnog u ponudi, apsolutno perfektnu infrastrukturu itd.

[passenger]

Nema veze ako te bace u Minhen. Lep je to grad.
Onda si mi na dva sata. Doneseš kobaje, ja ću raspalim vatru i dok si ti sa GTA za sat vremena ovde, ostao samo žar i taman da se roštilja bavarska kobaja

[kragujevac]

Ovakvi poduhvati se nikako ne mogu nazvati "loša ideja"....

[TheWickerMan]

Kobaje moze uvek Do GTA trebace vremena, za pocetak bi bio zadovoljan i sa "GTA wannabe" 2.5

Kakvi loša ideja, gde idu reči kobaja i loše u istoj rečenici

KG, ti si u Minhenu? Ajd malo opiši grad kad te ne bude mrzelo, ionako sad imaš vremena

sent from Huawei P8 Lite using Tapatalk

[passenger]

Jaguar V8 vs GTA.... Ko izgubi u trci do mene, jede kobaje bez senfa