Pa u prvom prilazu su imali nestabilan prilaz, i kako procedura nalaze, otisli su u go around na jos jedan krug i prilaz.
Interesantno je da su krug leteli manuelno bez ukljucenja autopilota. To obicno rade piloti koji nisu savladali autopilot i ne znaju da ga koriste, ili vojna grla, ili piloti koji ne veruju avionu...
U novom prilazu su ponovo radili go around "na ruke" i tom prilikom normalno uvukli tockove i flapsove, ali penjali sa nagibom od 25 stepeni. Boeing izricito ne preporucuje pitch preko 20 stepeni, brzina im je pala, avion stolirao, a vadjenje na malim visinama je zaista tesko, pogotovo bez vizuelnog kontakta sa zemljom/ horizontom.
Vreme prilicno muljavo, niska baza, udari bocnog vetra do 22 kmh, vlaznost 100%, magla.
U vezi merenja buke, postoje razlicita opazanja, subjektivna i objektivna. Kada su merili AGX TU 134, uvek je buka bila ispod dozvoljene, i ako svi znamo koliko se dere ruska masina.
Vazduhoplovi
Re: Vazduhoplovi
Negde sam danas pročitao da je direktor kompanije izjavio da piloti nisu nikada do te večeri radili go around.
Re: Vazduhoplovi
Buka je merena u cetiri tacke, lepo se vide na skici. Slazem se da i objektivna MORA da se razlikuje od tacke do tacke u kojoj se meri a o subjektivnoj, necu ni da govorim. Mada, tipicno je za sve starije avione da su znatno bucniji od novih. Zato je i Aviogeneksov B737 200ADV+ dobio pride i hush kitove, da bi sa sto manjim penalima mogao da leti po Evropi. Glavni razlog postojanja buke je brzina isticanja gasova iz mlaznika. Dakle, veci ventilator (fan, tj. fen), manja je buka. Zato se i povecava ulazni precnik motora (moze da se za isto vruce jezgro napravi veci stepen dvoprotocnosti) sto ujedno po motoru povecava potisak, ekonomicnost i efikasnost a smnjuje buku i potrosnju. Negativni efekti i ovde postoje, bilo strukturne prirode samog motora i konstrukcije aviona, tako i ekonomicnosti (veci precnik-veci otpor) tako da neka optimizacija na racun karakteristika mora da se ispostuje. Napretkom tehnologije i tehnike generalno, optimizacija ima sve vece tolerancje tako da PW1000G koristi prakticno vec razvijeno toplo jezgro za vojne vazduhoplove.
Re: Vazduhoplovi
Eh, Maco.... Nisu nas tako ucili u skoli... Mislim da si malko pogresio oko bukice, proveri ti to ponovo.
Re: Vazduhoplovi
U veceru za koliko osoba?zuzazu napisao:Eh, Maco.... Nisu nas tako ucili u skoli... Mislim da si malko pogresio oko bukice, proveri ti to ponovo.
EDIT by mod: Ne citirati poruku neposredno iznad. Za ostala pravila ponašanja pogledati PRAVILNIK Garaža foruma!
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nuk
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Re: Vazduhoplovi
Koliko god racunajte jos dve, 'oce ADrei da se kladi u drugoj temi, pa ko izgubi... 
Re: Vazduhoplovi
A ja sam u svakoj priči mirođija tako da računajte i mene.
Re: Vazduhoplovi
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... nd-393302/
Initial flight-data recorder analysis indicates that the pilots of the Tatarstan Boeing 737-500 which crashed at Kazan pushed the aircraft into a steep dive after the jet pitched up during a go-around.
Russia’s Interstate Aviation Committee states that the crew engaged go-around thrust after assessing the aircraft’s position relative to the runway. The autopilot was disconnected and the aircraft flown manually.
As the engines increased power the crew retracted the 737’s flaps from the 30° position to 15°. But the thrust from the underwing engines pitched the aircraft nose-up, and it climbed at a pitch of 25°.
This led the airspeed to bleed away from 150kt to 125kt, says the inquiry.
The pilots, after retracting the landing-gear, countered the climb and the loss of airspeed by pushing the control column forward – pushing the aircraft into a dive at a height of just 700m (2,300ft).
Investigators point out that the aircraft did not exceed its angle-of-attack limit, indicating that there was no stall.
During the “intense” dive the aircraft reached 75° pitch down, says the inquiry, and it slammed into the ground at over 240kt just 45s after initiating the missed approach.
Both CFM International CFM56 engines were functioning until the moment of impact, and there is no immediate indication of system failure.
While the flight-data recorder has generated detailed information the cockpit-voice recording mechanism was found to be missing after its container was opened. Investigators are conducting a search for the device.
The inquiry has not established whether somatogravic illusion might have played a role in the night-time accident.
Somatogravic illusion occurs when the brain, in the absence of visual references, misinterprets the sensations caused by rapid acceleration, during a climb, as excessive pitch. This can cause pilots to react with sharp nose-down input, enough to push the aircraft into a dive at low altitude.
The investigators are examining the airline’s pilot training procedures, assisted by Russian pilots experienced in operating the 737.
Tatarstan Airlines has grounded its other Boeing 737 as a precaution in the wake of the accident.
The carrier says it is "temporarily suspending" services with the twinjet following the loss of the 737-500, and all 50 occupants, on 17 November.
Tatarstan Airlines has a 737-400 in a fleet which also comprises four Airbus A319s and two Tupolev Tu-154s, as well as 15 Cessna 208 Grand Caravans.
Initial flight-data recorder analysis indicates that the pilots of the Tatarstan Boeing 737-500 which crashed at Kazan pushed the aircraft into a steep dive after the jet pitched up during a go-around.
Russia’s Interstate Aviation Committee states that the crew engaged go-around thrust after assessing the aircraft’s position relative to the runway. The autopilot was disconnected and the aircraft flown manually.
As the engines increased power the crew retracted the 737’s flaps from the 30° position to 15°. But the thrust from the underwing engines pitched the aircraft nose-up, and it climbed at a pitch of 25°.
This led the airspeed to bleed away from 150kt to 125kt, says the inquiry.
The pilots, after retracting the landing-gear, countered the climb and the loss of airspeed by pushing the control column forward – pushing the aircraft into a dive at a height of just 700m (2,300ft).
Investigators point out that the aircraft did not exceed its angle-of-attack limit, indicating that there was no stall.
During the “intense” dive the aircraft reached 75° pitch down, says the inquiry, and it slammed into the ground at over 240kt just 45s after initiating the missed approach.
Both CFM International CFM56 engines were functioning until the moment of impact, and there is no immediate indication of system failure.
While the flight-data recorder has generated detailed information the cockpit-voice recording mechanism was found to be missing after its container was opened. Investigators are conducting a search for the device.
The inquiry has not established whether somatogravic illusion might have played a role in the night-time accident.
Somatogravic illusion occurs when the brain, in the absence of visual references, misinterprets the sensations caused by rapid acceleration, during a climb, as excessive pitch. This can cause pilots to react with sharp nose-down input, enough to push the aircraft into a dive at low altitude.
The investigators are examining the airline’s pilot training procedures, assisted by Russian pilots experienced in operating the 737.
Tatarstan Airlines has grounded its other Boeing 737 as a precaution in the wake of the accident.
The carrier says it is "temporarily suspending" services with the twinjet following the loss of the 737-500, and all 50 occupants, on 17 November.
Tatarstan Airlines has a 737-400 in a fleet which also comprises four Airbus A319s and two Tupolev Tu-154s, as well as 15 Cessna 208 Grand Caravans.
"This is Chief Inspector Clouseau’s residence. This is Chief Inspector Clouseau speaking on the pheun.”
Re: Vazduhoplovi
Nevoljno moram da priznam da je Maca u pravu. Prelistao sam internet i kaze da je u pitanju brzina vazduha na izduvu a ne temperatura (kako su nas ucili).
Inace, Maco, nikad se ne kladim. Drustvu placam i bez opklade
Takodje, od danas je Air Serbia konacno dobila dozvolu za obavljanje prevoza putnika, robe i tereta, i poslednji trag Jat Airways je izbrisan.
Inace, Maco, nikad se ne kladim. Drustvu placam i bez opklade
Takodje, od danas je Air Serbia konacno dobila dozvolu za obavljanje prevoza putnika, robe i tereta, i poslednji trag Jat Airways je izbrisan.
Re: Vazduhoplovi
Baš htedoh da napišem da je ovo garant pilot koji je nedavno iz nekog MiG-a ili Suhoja seo u B737.zuzazu napisao: Interesantno je da su krug leteli manuelno bez ukljucenja autopilota. To obicno rade piloti koji nisu savladali autopilot i ne znaju da ga koriste, ili vojna grla, ili piloti koji ne veruju avionu...
A brzinu je pokušao da poveća tako što je nos sa +25 stepeni oborio na -75 i skoro vertikalno se zakucao u zemlju.
Što se tiče male visine, loše vidljivosti, raznih optičkih i drugih iluzija... pa dobar pilot bi to sve morao da ima u vidu. I više da gleda u instrumente, a manje kroz prozor.
Eto, merenja su lepo pokazala da je navodna buka ruskih mašina obična zapadna propaganda.zuzazu napisao: U vezi merenja buke, postoje razlicita opazanja, subjektivna i objektivna. Kada su merili AGX TU 134, uvek je buka bila ispod dozvoljene, i ako svi znamo koliko se dere ruska masina.
Inače, mislim da je mnogo važnija (bar za putnike) buka u kabini, a ne napolju. Da li se i to meri?
Napisah ranije da me A330 nije uopšte impesionirao. U ovim malim nisam leteo.
Ђенерал Јанковић
Re: Vazduhoplovi
Tu ti jako mnogo zavisi i od pozicije sedenja u kabini, pre svega koliko si daleko od motora.
Re: Vazduhoplovi
Da se vratimo na Orla koji je pao kod Mrcajevaca.
U pitanju je bio probni let nakon remonta, otkazao je hidraulicki sistem komandi prilikom prilazenja. Pilot je javio da nema kontrolu nad avionom, da komande uopste ne reaguju i katapultirao se. Sreca je sto avion nije pao na naseljeno mesto.
Pilotu su naprsla dva prsljena prilikom katapultiranja.
Orao ima dve servo pumpe, medjutim u pitanju je, najverovatnije, curenje hidraulicne tecnosti i pad pritiska u obe servo pumpe. U sustini jednom u milion se desava ali eto.
U pitanju je bio probni let nakon remonta, otkazao je hidraulicki sistem komandi prilikom prilazenja. Pilot je javio da nema kontrolu nad avionom, da komande uopste ne reaguju i katapultirao se. Sreca je sto avion nije pao na naseljeno mesto.
Pilotu su naprsla dva prsljena prilikom katapultiranja.
Orao ima dve servo pumpe, medjutim u pitanju je, najverovatnije, curenje hidraulicne tecnosti i pad pritiska u obe servo pumpe. U sustini jednom u milion se desava ali eto.
"This is Chief Inspector Clouseau’s residence. This is Chief Inspector Clouseau speaking on the pheun.”
Re: Vazduhoplovi
Ako te dobro razumem nisu crkle pumpe nego je došlo do curenja tečnosti. To na tek remontovanom avionu meni govori da je po ko zna koji put u pitanju javašluk koji je mogao da ubije nekog.
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kvcali
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Re: Vazduhoplovi
izgleda da sa air serbiom sve ide po planu
a za orla, jbg. kad treba da budes jeben, gace same spadaju, bas maler, ionako je tanko sa avionima jos i da padaju
edit :nije remontovan, nego je izasao sa servisa ^^^^
inace se slazem da je o tome rec.
a za orla, jbg. kad treba da budes jeben, gace same spadaju, bas maler, ionako je tanko sa avionima jos i da padaju
edit :nije remontovan, nego je izasao sa servisa ^^^^
inace se slazem da je o tome rec.
GS, GS/E, GSE, GTE, GSI, OPC # Irmscher, Mantzel, Steinmetz, Zender, Lexmaul, Mattig, Rieger, Kissling
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