Vazduhoplovi
Re: Vazduhoplovi
Ne mozes da posaljes prtljag preko neta tako da ti sve dodje na isto
Re: Vazduhoplovi
Floyd napisao:Juce sam imao jednu neprijatnost na aerodromu.
Zakasnio sam na check in citavih 2 minuta i nisu hteli da me puste u avion koji je poletao tek za 40 minuta.
Ok, priznajem da sam kriv (ne direktno ja ali nije ni bitno) ali prosto ne mogu da verujem da nece da izadju u susret i da me makar i uz novcanu kaznu ipak puste u avion...
Eee, gde ode današnji svet... Ja sam mislio da dok se avion ne odlepi od gejta, uvek možeš da se čekiraš i uđeš (prtljag stigne sledećim letom).
Nekada su aviokompanije čekale takve putnike.Ili je ovde problem što je reč o švajcarskim dripcima...
Ђенерал Јанковић
Re: Vazduhoplovi
I na tu opciju (slanje prtljaga sledecim avionom) bi pristao cak bi i doplatio ali nisu hteli...
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Re: Vazduhoplovi
Toliko su smaranje napravili od tog putovanja avionom zbog tih raznih provera, te sat pre leta se mora biti tamo, te dva, mislim zesca zahebancija. 
Mauro Forghieri:"Power comes from speed, torque without speed is nothing"
Life is funny, skies are sunny, Bees make honey, who needs money
Re: Vazduhoplovi
U Bg-u cekaju putnike, ne znam konkretno za Swiss, ali je Lufthansa pustila lika koji je dosao 20 minuta pred poletanje.
Nego, ono sto meni nije jasno... Zasto avion ne moze da poleti po jakoj magli? I zasto ne moze i da sleti?
Zar ne moze da se leti na instrumente, i da sve bude bezbedno? Ili magla moze da smeta instrumentima?
Nego, ono sto meni nije jasno... Zasto avion ne moze da poleti po jakoj magli? I zasto ne moze i da sleti?
Zar ne moze da se leti na instrumente, i da sve bude bezbedno? Ili magla moze da smeta instrumentima?
Re: Vazduhoplovi
Pa zato što se ništa ne vidi. 
Mora pilot da ima bar minimalnu vidljivost oko aviona. Poletanje bi možda i moglo, sletanje malo teže. Mislim da napisa Zuzazu pre nekog vremena da može i bez ikakve vidljivosti (ili čak auto-pilot), ali ako su avion i aerodrom opremljeni na odgovarajući način. Te moderne tehnologije nisu do nas još stigle.
Mora pilot da ima bar minimalnu vidljivost oko aviona. Poletanje bi možda i moglo, sletanje malo teže. Mislim da napisa Zuzazu pre nekog vremena da može i bez ikakve vidljivosti (ili čak auto-pilot), ali ako su avion i aerodrom opremljeni na odgovarajući način. Te moderne tehnologije nisu do nas još stigle. Ђенерал Јанковић
Re: Vazduhoplovi
Evo sta kaze pravilnik FAR Part 121 Operating Requirements: Domestic, flag, and supplemental operations
Subpart U - Dispatching and Flight Release Rules
Section 651 - Takeoff and loanding weather minimums: IFR: All certificate holders
(a) Notwithstanding any clearance from ATC, no pilot may begin a takeoff in an airplane under IFR when the weather conditions reported by the U.S. National Weather Service, a source approved by that Service, or a source approved by the Administrator, are less than those specified in --
(1) The certificate holder's operations specifications; or
(2) Parts 91 and 97 of this chapter, if the certificate holder's operations specifications do not specify takeoff minimums for the airport.
(b) Except as provided in paragraph (d) of this section, no pilot may continue an approach past the final approach fix, or where a final approach fix is not used, begin the final approach segment of an instrument approach procedure --
(1) At any airport, unless the U.S. National Weather Service, a source approved by that Service, or a source approved by the Administrator, issues a weather report for that airport; and
(2) At airports within the United States and its territories or at U.S. military airports, unless the latest weather report for that airport issued by the U.S. National Weather Service, a source approved by that Service, or a source approved by the Administrator, reports the visibility to be equal to or more than the visibility minimums prescribed for that procedure. For the purpose of this section, the term "U.S. military airports" means airports in foreign countries where flight operations are under the control of U.S. military authority.
(c) If a pilot has begun the final approach segment of an instrument approach procedure in accordance with paragraph (b) of this section and after that receives a later weather report indicating below-minimum conditions, the pilot may continue the approach to DH or MDA. Upon reaching DH or at MDA, and at any time before the missed approach point, the pilot may continue the approach below DH or MDA and touch down if --
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(1) The aircraft is continuously in a position from which a descent to a landing on the intended runway can be made at a normal rate of descent using normal maneuvers, and where that descent rate will allow touchdown to occur within the touchdown zone of the runway of intended landing;
(2) The flight visibility is not less than the visibility prescribed in the standard instrument approach procedure being used;
(3) Except for Category II or Category III approaches where any necessary visual reference requirements are specified by authorization of the Administrator, at least one of the following visual references for the intended runway is distinctly visible and identifiable to the pilot:
(i) The approach light system, except that the pilot may not descend below 100 feet above the touchdown zone elevation using the approach lights as a reference unless the red terminating bars or the red side row bars are also distinctly visible and identifiable.
(ii) The threshold.
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(iii) The threshold markings.
(iv) The threshold lights.
(v) The runway end identifier lights.
(vi) The visual approach slope indicator.
(vii) The touchdown zone or touchdown zone markings.
(viii) The touchdown zone lights.
(ix) The runway or runway markings.
(x) The runway lights; and
(4) When the aircraft is on a straight-in nonprecision approach procedure which incorporates a visual descent point, the aircraft has reached the visual descent point, except where the aircraft is not equipped for or capable of establishing that point, or a descent to the runway cannot be made using normal procedures or rates of descent if descent is delayed until reaching that point.
(d) A pilot may begin the final approach segment of an instrument approach procedure other than a Category II or Category III procedure at an airport when the visibility is less than the visibility minimums prescribed for that procedure if that airport is served by a operative ILS and an operative PAR, and both are used by the pilot. However, no pilot may operate an aircraft below the authorized MDA, or continue an approach below the authorized DH, unless --
(1) The aircraft is continuously in a position from which a descent to a landing on the intended runway can be made at a normal rate of descent using normal maneuvers and where such a descent rate will allow touchdown to occur within the touchdown zone of the runway of intended landing;
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(2) The flight visibility is not less than the visibility prescribed in the standard instrument approach procedure being used; and
(3) Except for Category II or Category III approaches where any necessary visual reference requirements are specified by the authorization of the Administrator, at least one of the following visual references for the intended runway is distinctly visible and identifiable to the pilot:
(i) The approach light system, except that the pilot may not descend below 100 feet above the touchdown zone elevation using the approach lights as a reference unless the red terminating bars or the red side row bars are also distinctly visible and identifiable.
(ii) The threshold.
(iii) The threshold markings.
(iv) The threshold lights.
(v) The runway end identifier lights.
(vi) The visual approach slope indicator.
(vii) The touchdown zone or touchdown zone markings.
(viii) The touchdown zone lights.
(ix) The runway or runway markings.
(x) The runway lights.
(e) For the purpose of this section, the final approach segment begins at the final approach fix or facility prescribed in the instrument approach procedure. When a final approach fix is not prescribed for a procedure that includes a procedure turn, the final approach segment begins at the point where the procedure turn is completed and the aircraft is established inbound toward the airport on the final approach course within the distance prescribed in the procedure.
(f) Unless otherwise authorized in the certificate holder's operations specifications, each pilot making an IFR takeoff, approach, or landing at a foreign airport shall comply with the applicable instrument approach procedures and weather minimums prescribed by the authority having jurisdiction over the airport.
Subpart U - Dispatching and Flight Release Rules
Section 651 - Takeoff and loanding weather minimums: IFR: All certificate holders
(a) Notwithstanding any clearance from ATC, no pilot may begin a takeoff in an airplane under IFR when the weather conditions reported by the U.S. National Weather Service, a source approved by that Service, or a source approved by the Administrator, are less than those specified in --
(1) The certificate holder's operations specifications; or
(2) Parts 91 and 97 of this chapter, if the certificate holder's operations specifications do not specify takeoff minimums for the airport.
(b) Except as provided in paragraph (d) of this section, no pilot may continue an approach past the final approach fix, or where a final approach fix is not used, begin the final approach segment of an instrument approach procedure --
(1) At any airport, unless the U.S. National Weather Service, a source approved by that Service, or a source approved by the Administrator, issues a weather report for that airport; and
(2) At airports within the United States and its territories or at U.S. military airports, unless the latest weather report for that airport issued by the U.S. National Weather Service, a source approved by that Service, or a source approved by the Administrator, reports the visibility to be equal to or more than the visibility minimums prescribed for that procedure. For the purpose of this section, the term "U.S. military airports" means airports in foreign countries where flight operations are under the control of U.S. military authority.
(c) If a pilot has begun the final approach segment of an instrument approach procedure in accordance with paragraph (b) of this section and after that receives a later weather report indicating below-minimum conditions, the pilot may continue the approach to DH or MDA. Upon reaching DH or at MDA, and at any time before the missed approach point, the pilot may continue the approach below DH or MDA and touch down if --
Top of Page
(1) The aircraft is continuously in a position from which a descent to a landing on the intended runway can be made at a normal rate of descent using normal maneuvers, and where that descent rate will allow touchdown to occur within the touchdown zone of the runway of intended landing;
(2) The flight visibility is not less than the visibility prescribed in the standard instrument approach procedure being used;
(3) Except for Category II or Category III approaches where any necessary visual reference requirements are specified by authorization of the Administrator, at least one of the following visual references for the intended runway is distinctly visible and identifiable to the pilot:
(i) The approach light system, except that the pilot may not descend below 100 feet above the touchdown zone elevation using the approach lights as a reference unless the red terminating bars or the red side row bars are also distinctly visible and identifiable.
(ii) The threshold.
Top of Page
(iii) The threshold markings.
(iv) The threshold lights.
(v) The runway end identifier lights.
(vi) The visual approach slope indicator.
(vii) The touchdown zone or touchdown zone markings.
(viii) The touchdown zone lights.
(ix) The runway or runway markings.
(x) The runway lights; and
(4) When the aircraft is on a straight-in nonprecision approach procedure which incorporates a visual descent point, the aircraft has reached the visual descent point, except where the aircraft is not equipped for or capable of establishing that point, or a descent to the runway cannot be made using normal procedures or rates of descent if descent is delayed until reaching that point.
(d) A pilot may begin the final approach segment of an instrument approach procedure other than a Category II or Category III procedure at an airport when the visibility is less than the visibility minimums prescribed for that procedure if that airport is served by a operative ILS and an operative PAR, and both are used by the pilot. However, no pilot may operate an aircraft below the authorized MDA, or continue an approach below the authorized DH, unless --
(1) The aircraft is continuously in a position from which a descent to a landing on the intended runway can be made at a normal rate of descent using normal maneuvers and where such a descent rate will allow touchdown to occur within the touchdown zone of the runway of intended landing;
Top of Page
(2) The flight visibility is not less than the visibility prescribed in the standard instrument approach procedure being used; and
(3) Except for Category II or Category III approaches where any necessary visual reference requirements are specified by the authorization of the Administrator, at least one of the following visual references for the intended runway is distinctly visible and identifiable to the pilot:
(i) The approach light system, except that the pilot may not descend below 100 feet above the touchdown zone elevation using the approach lights as a reference unless the red terminating bars or the red side row bars are also distinctly visible and identifiable.
(ii) The threshold.
(iii) The threshold markings.
(iv) The threshold lights.
(v) The runway end identifier lights.
(vi) The visual approach slope indicator.
(vii) The touchdown zone or touchdown zone markings.
(viii) The touchdown zone lights.
(ix) The runway or runway markings.
(x) The runway lights.
(e) For the purpose of this section, the final approach segment begins at the final approach fix or facility prescribed in the instrument approach procedure. When a final approach fix is not prescribed for a procedure that includes a procedure turn, the final approach segment begins at the point where the procedure turn is completed and the aircraft is established inbound toward the airport on the final approach course within the distance prescribed in the procedure.
(f) Unless otherwise authorized in the certificate holder's operations specifications, each pilot making an IFR takeoff, approach, or landing at a foreign airport shall comply with the applicable instrument approach procedures and weather minimums prescribed by the authority having jurisdiction over the airport.
Re: Vazduhoplovi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSNE3SmYA-8
I jedno zanimljivo sletanje. Prilaz ovoj pisti (Honduras) je lud skroz.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_z5HtME9n8
I jedno zanimljivo sletanje. Prilaz ovoj pisti (Honduras) je lud skroz.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_z5HtME9n8
"This is Chief Inspector Clouseau’s residence. This is Chief Inspector Clouseau speaking on the pheun.”
Re: Vazduhoplovi
@Maco, kad postujes ovako, i mene mrzi da citam 
Sletanje po magli se moze obaviti u zavisnosti od dozvole koju ima posada, opreme na avionu i opreme aerodroma.
Prilazi u uslovima lose vidljivosti vec pocinju sa kategorijom 2 (CAT II) gde je vidljivost ne manja od 300m a baza oblacnosti (vertikalna vidljivost) veca od 100 ft (30m) a manja od 200ft. Kategorija II se moze leteti i na ruke.
Kategorija 3a (CAT IIIa) je u uslovima vidljivosti do 200m a baza je veca od 15m. Za kategoriju IIIa potreban je autoland sistem.
Poletanje u uslovima lose vidljivosti je sa vidljivoscu duz piste 125m i vecom.
Poletanja i sletanja vrsi iskljucivo kapetan.
Otkaz bilo kog dela opreme na avionu uslovice momentalnu go around proceduru, produzavanje u nov prilaz ili odlazak na alternativni aerodrom.
Sletanje u uslovima smanjene vidljivosti, i u opste prilaz, predstavljaju maksimum pilotskog umeca jer se sve desava blizu zemlje sa brzinama od oko 230kmh, te se za prepoznavanje otkaza i adekvatnu reakciju zahteva sekunda - sekunda i po, sto je u teoriji jedno a u praksi nesto sasvim drugo.
Sletanje po magli se moze obaviti u zavisnosti od dozvole koju ima posada, opreme na avionu i opreme aerodroma.
Prilazi u uslovima lose vidljivosti vec pocinju sa kategorijom 2 (CAT II) gde je vidljivost ne manja od 300m a baza oblacnosti (vertikalna vidljivost) veca od 100 ft (30m) a manja od 200ft. Kategorija II se moze leteti i na ruke.
Kategorija 3a (CAT IIIa) je u uslovima vidljivosti do 200m a baza je veca od 15m. Za kategoriju IIIa potreban je autoland sistem.
Poletanje u uslovima lose vidljivosti je sa vidljivoscu duz piste 125m i vecom.
Poletanja i sletanja vrsi iskljucivo kapetan.
Otkaz bilo kog dela opreme na avionu uslovice momentalnu go around proceduru, produzavanje u nov prilaz ili odlazak na alternativni aerodrom.
Sletanje u uslovima smanjene vidljivosti, i u opste prilaz, predstavljaju maksimum pilotskog umeca jer se sve desava blizu zemlje sa brzinama od oko 230kmh, te se za prepoznavanje otkaza i adekvatnu reakciju zahteva sekunda - sekunda i po, sto je u teoriji jedno a u praksi nesto sasvim drugo.
Re: Vazduhoplovi
@zuzazu
Copy paste je bilo samo sa web strane. Malo mi je nezgodno da svu dokumentaciju vucem svakodnevno na i sa posla. A ko hoce detaljno da cita...
Copy paste je bilo samo sa web strane. Malo mi je nezgodno da svu dokumentaciju vucem svakodnevno na i sa posla. A ko hoce detaljno da cita...
Re: Vazduhoplovi
Znam, mrzi ljude da to citaju, a pogotovo ovako suvoparno.
Low visibility operations je velika filozofija, i o tome se cita knjiga, dok je ovaj copy/paste samo zakonski uslov za tamo nesto.
Low visibility operations je velika filozofija, i o tome se cita knjiga, dok je ovaj copy/paste samo zakonski uslov za tamo nesto.
Re: Vazduhoplovi
Bas tako, zato i stavih u prvom redu Operating Requirements. Postoji jos uvek u prodaji Modlijeva knjiga preko koje ljudi mogu da se upoznaju sa elementima VFR i IFR leta, pa tek onda dalje. Nego, da li ti je prosla kojim slucajem "Vazduhoplovna meteorologija - Zlatoje Čobanov, Slobodan Niković" kroz sake? Htedoh u stvari da pitam da li je jos uvek koriste u Vrscu?
Re: Vazduhoplovi
Na prvom Cozmovom linku mi izgleda da je sletanje moglo da se obavi i ručno, od trenutka kada je pilot ugledao prilazna svetla. Pista je izuzetno dobro osvetljena. Druga je stvar kako doći do te tačke kroz maglu.
Ђенерал Јанковић
Re: Vazduhoplovi
@Maco, nije koristena ta meteorologija vec neka druga. Imam je ali sam zaboravio ko je autor.
@snork, ovo je sad malo tezi deo...
Na klipu je Bus i ne znam kako je kod njih reseno.
Kod Boeing aviona, na oko 400ft, trimer pocinje da trimuje NOSE UP. Na taj nacin se priprema avion za eventualni go-around, koji je moguc autopilotom kada su oba autopilota ukljucena.
E, sada, posto je avion natrimovan na nose up na 400ft, preuzimanjem aviona na ruke na 200ft pilot bi dobio vrlo veliki propinjuci moment i silu na volanu, sa kojom treba da se zeza na par sekundi do zemlje. To bas nije "higijenski" i obicno se ostavi da avion uradi autoland.
Valjda sam koliko je moguce objasnio.
BTW, na snimku se vidi vrlo losa filozofija upotrebe svetala za sletanje, o cemu se takodje diskutuje tokom pripreme za prilaz...
@snork, ovo je sad malo tezi deo...
Na klipu je Bus i ne znam kako je kod njih reseno.
Kod Boeing aviona, na oko 400ft, trimer pocinje da trimuje NOSE UP. Na taj nacin se priprema avion za eventualni go-around, koji je moguc autopilotom kada su oba autopilota ukljucena.
E, sada, posto je avion natrimovan na nose up na 400ft, preuzimanjem aviona na ruke na 200ft pilot bi dobio vrlo veliki propinjuci moment i silu na volanu, sa kojom treba da se zeza na par sekundi do zemlje. To bas nije "higijenski" i obicno se ostavi da avion uradi autoland.
Valjda sam koliko je moguce objasnio.
BTW, na snimku se vidi vrlo losa filozofija upotrebe svetala za sletanje, o cemu se takodje diskutuje tokom pripreme za prilaz...
Re: Vazduhoplovi
Mozda je bio neki First Class ili Senator. Ja sam Frequent Flyer i nisu me pustili nekih 40m pred poletanje na connection flight u Frankfurtu, ali su mi rešili problem za dž iako je bila moja greška. Iskupili su se što me skinuli sa leta pre par godina jer nisam imao vizu za Rusiju, a viza tad već nije ni trebala. Au kako sam se tad iznervirao, čak su i naoružano obezbeđenje doveli da me smire (hapse).NexT napisao:U Bg-u cekaju putnike, ne znam konkretno za Swiss, ali je Lufthansa pustila lika koji je dosao 20 minuta pred poletanje.
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